"a feminist community for men" doesn't sound very liberating
"a feminist community for men" doesn't sound very liberating
Why are we continuing to use biased language?
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If it's about equality, then it shouldn't be a word that has clear preference for one sex.
Well, it's important to recognize that the term is distinct from egalitarian. The term feminism does essentialize the advocating for the equal rights of women, but it is also important to note that while this is a feminist community, this community is not about feminism. This community is about men and their specific liberation from oppressive gender roles and stereotypes.
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There is a history behind the term and why it is used.
The term feminism does essentialize the advocating for the equal rights of women (this is good actually), but it is also important to note that while this is a feminist community, this community is not about feminism. This community is about men and their specific liberation from oppressive gender roles and stereotypes.
The reason I'm not a feminist is because while feminism says it advocates for equal rights for women, in actuality it's advocating for more power for women.
When women are unfairly discriminated against (which is most of the time), fighting for more power for women is equivalent in outcome to fighting for equal rights. But in those situations where men get the short end of the stick, feminism is supremely unconcerned.
Feminism is not concerned with equality. It is concerned with better outcomes for women. It's a subtle but important difference. And it means it's an ideology that as a man I can mostly support but cannot subscribe to. Feminism does not care that the vast majority of workplace deaths are men. Feminism does not care that boys are failing school at unprecedented rates. It's not their issue, and that's fine, but don't pretend feminism is for everyone. BLM is sympathetic to Indian rights movements but it is not their issue. LGBT+ groups are sympathetic to unions but it is not their issue.
My struggles as a man are not feminism's issue. And that's fine. But we shouldn't pretend otherwise. We need our own group, separate from feminism.
Feminism does not care that the vast majority of workplace deaths are men. Feminism does not care that boys are failing school at unprecedented rates.
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My struggles as a man are not feminism’s issue.I think you'd be surprised. The vast majority of those who actually cover these topics are feminists, doing academic feminism.
Here's the way I think about:
The real objective is, or should be, equality in all things that are not explicitly biological in nature and equitable treatment even in those. Thus, none of us should be excluded from the halls of power or anywhere else based on our biology even as things like health care are tailored to our biology.
That would seem to argue against a place called "men's liberation." The reality, however, is that we have only nicely begun the journey. Both men and women have much baggage to discard by virtue of both historical and current cultural and legal norms.
Those cultural and legal norms have imposed different behaviours, thought patterns, and roles. Men and women have different sets of baggage to deal with, so it only makes sense to find our allies in our journeys among those who share a common burden.
I am a male. I have rarely been excluded from women's liberation groups when I try to learn and have occasionally found that my perspective was appreciated. I would hope that the same thing is happening here.
I hope that we are all working toward a more equitable and more egalitarian society, but we won't get there by ignoring the real differences between men and women that have been imposed by culture and law. We cannot fix what we do not acknowledge.
"If you are used to privilige, equality feels like a threat"
I could write a lot more on how and why, but this sums it up nicely.
Not really.
Hey! I just happened upon this post and saw a few of your comments. It sounds like you have experienced some stuff that isn't fair, and it makes sense to feel hurt. That is not an uncommon experience.
Do you have someone to talk to about all that? It legit helps.
Not trying to push you to do anything you don't want to do btw, just checking in on ya :)
Non feminist male communities tend to devolve into misogynistic places. What exactly is your problem with feminism, except the name?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism
"Feminism holds the position that societies prioritize the male point of view and that women are treated unjustly in these societies."
It's not about equality if it favors one sex over the other.
You never see feminists complaining about the draft or female employment in sanitation industries, for example.
Trying to conflate "feminism" with "equality among the sexes" is just a subversive tactic used by feminists to fool men into thinking they care about injustices towards men.
They don't. In fact, most of them proudly laugh if anyone even mentions something along the lines of "injustices towards men."
Sure. From my point of view man and women both struggle from the same societal structures, be it in quite different ways. Feminism addressees those societal structures from the perspective of women and in more recent times other marginalized groups. While sure it's not a lens specifically developed to view male issues, for me personally it's been a helpful tool to empathize with women in general and to question societal or interpersonal structures (like man has to be the provider for the family or what the hell is family anyway?). You have a rather antagonistic view on feminism, maybe based on your own negative experiences or maybe influenced by certain media bubbles. So you might not find the discussions in this community very helpful.
Oh look, he's 95% of the way to the general incel stuff. Say "family court" next!
I'm interested in discussing men's issues with feminists. I don't have nearly as much interest in hearing the view points of anti-feminists. Red pill and MRA spaces are decidedly boring because anti-feminists have taken over the discourse.
In short, I support labeling this a feminist community.
You need to read some Bell Hooks brother
What would you prefer and why?
There's already a word, egalitarian.
This doesn’t specify you’re discussing issues around gender though.
Personally I am not bothered by the word feminism but in general I find this type of minute language critiquing to not be very useful. I care more for the meanings and intentions behind words than their etymology. Feminism is a word that is almost universally used to mean egalitarianism regarding gender, and it has a long history and deep literature in support of that idea. For those reasons, I don’t think there will be consensus around changing it but if there was I would go along with it. As I said, it doesn’t seem like a very important issue here.