9mo ago

It's okay, tankies love fascism, so they're not put out by the result

579 comments

In 2016, the blue team won by 3 million votes and still lost the election. The system is broken. I'll still vote blue, but I don't think it will matter, especially since I'm not in a swing state.
The Electoral College Explained
- Matters for your more local elections. Those swing states still send a lot of republicans to Congress every election. And control of Congress is pretty damn important.
  
  More important than who's president.
- Turning 35 this September. Only 1 Republican has won the popular vote since I was born.
  
  Well yeah, that's why they love the EC (and idea of land >>> people)
- They don't care.
  Sure they will tell people that democracy will end if Trump is reelected but actually trying to fix the voting system is too hard.
  Not that there has been any movement to do something about it. Just vote Democrat™.
- The electoral college, first past the post and gerrymandering basically make the American electoral system a joke

DNC and DNC shills expecting free votes because they're democratically funding a genocide instead of fascistly funding a genocide
You morons in November when Trump inevitably wins due to horrendous voter turnout in November from former Democrat voters and not because the 5 communists in the USA made the difference
It's like a copy paste of Trump v Clinton and clearly no one learned their lesson from literally 8 years ago.
- Fielding bad candidates because you can't be bothered to do the bare minimum has been a thing forever. As a friendly reminder, the thing that scared the DNC and RNC the most in my lifetime wasn't Trump, 9/11, or anything like that. It was Ross Perot.
  They'd both burn everything rather than let anyone else play the game.
  
  I too can assert baseless claims without evidence!
  
  The youths wait till the last minute until midnight to get involved then they see how horrible shit is and get all morally frustrated. If you give a shit and want to know how this works LOOK AT VOTING RECORDS. Don't just focus in on your pet issue.
- Remember some of these people then and now were inauthentic posters trying to poison the well and promote political inaction disguised as enlightened policy positions.
  Alot of people got the memo, as evidence by the complete lack of interest in 3rd parties by the left this go round. Still not enough of us though,
- You have fun amplifying anti-democratic fascist propaganda. :)
  
  If you're wondering about the downvotes:
  I think @pacrist quoted tankie statements there to show how they're aiding fascists (should have prefixed it with "things tankies say" or so).

"I would fight fascism to my last breath" "I would be part of the resistance movement if a fascist government took power"
proceeds to do none of the un-sexy things needed to prevent fascism from taking hold in the first place
- Exactly. They think being in a resistance is sexy, because they consume media that glorifies it. They dress it up and hide the realities while amplifying the parts that are heroic and good looking, and think that's what being in a resistance is like. Couple that with Main Character Syndrome and you've got a bunch of tankies who think they're going to kick ass at organizing a resistance and all be leaders when in fact most of them are going to do something stupid, get caught by the fascist regime, and die in a camp.
  
  I think it's more likely they'd join the fascist regime and rationalize some reasons why that's the "revolutionary" thing to do.
  I doubt the tankies would be dying in a camp but only because they'd be the ones running the camps.
- Fits the rest of their LARPing, honestly.

And then they ask "wHy dO tHe dEms mOvE tO tHe CenTrE wHeN tHeY lOsE i dOn'T uNdErsTanD".
- I think that's been a proven case for European parliamentary democracies giving way to right wing and fascist parties. But that's more the reverse: the liberal and center-left move center and then lose.
  But US politics doesn't have much leftist policy to shed, or many leftist politicians to exoricate, so it is more that even when Democrats win, policy stays right of center. Which is where the frustrated remark "both parties are the same" comes from, which everyone also shits on.
  Since you know, the centre right continually stretches further right like a rubber band.
  
  Dems can't move as far left as you want them to when there's a very real chance of losing. Want it to move left? Give Dems overwhelming and consistent wins and they can listen to the more left part of their party and move left.
- SURELY the DNC will listen if they don't vote, don't run, and don't donate, but post a genocide Joe meme from their phone also made available by genocide while wearing clothes manufactured by a genocidal state on land acquired from an ethnic cleansing. That's the morally upstanding thing to do.
  
  Well they didn't listen when we did vote so fuck em. And no, participating in Capitalism is not an endorsement of capitalism. Never was, never will be, because participation is enforced.
  
  I know, why would they listen to the dipshit normal democratic citizens that donate to their campaigns, volunteer for them, vote for them and support them when they clearly should promote radical and unpopular policies to assuage self-appointed fake left internet pundits that hate and try to smear them, right?
  
  Then these fucks disappear after the election is over. If you don't like how the last election went stick around and actually effect change BEFORE everything is on the line.
- Intentional misinterpretation.
  Democrats spend more time attacking the left than they EVER have Republicans, because their platforms are 95% the same. You don't get to insult half your base, tell them their priorities are bullshit baby dreams, move further right from your already mid right position, then blame those people for your loss.
  By telling leftists to eat shit, you're saying you don't need leftists to win. If leftists are the single cause behind every dem loss then its probably time to change your platform to cater to leftists (or just admit that you're fascists that'll take the red fascism instead of the blue fascism before you shift left even a little bit.)
  
  Dems spend all day hammering Rs, but if you are very online in mostly lefty spaces, you only hear about criticisms of the left. Its the online spaces that cause the distortion in views, not that its gonna change.
  
  Keep cheerleading for fascism, buddy. :)

If anyone actually wants to stop the genocide in Gaza please vote out your republican congressman, almost every Republican congressman supported the resolution to restart weapons shipments and almost every democrat voted against it.
- Most of Congress supports the Israeli genocide including Democrats as well
- Well shit, if you have a republican congressman voting then out should already be the default condition.
  checks vote
  And of course Cuellar.
  Just once I'd like to see one of these democrats who break with the party on key issues not get leadership backing to defeat their primary opponent.
- This isn't a republican issue only. Most of congress, both democrats and Republicans have been voting in favor of funding israel. The big problem is that most of our politicians are bought by AIPAC.
  The "anti semitism" bill passed 320-91 in house.
  The 14.3 billon in aid to israel was passed by the house by 366-58. Only 37 Democrats and 21 Republicans opposed the bill.
  Source.
  You can checkout opensecrets.org or https://trackaipac.com/ to see which politicians are getting what from AIPAC.
  
  The 14.3 billon in aid to israel was passed by the house by 366-58. Only 37 Democrats and 21 Republicans opposed the bill.
  These numbers don't paint the full picture of some Democrats voicing moral objections to human suffering, versus some Republicans who object to the existence of government and will vote against funding for anything.
- Unfortunately that's not going to work. Biden's biggest donors were pissed he even paused the 2,000 pound bombs. Voting out the republicans isn't going to purge this rot. We've worshipped at the altar of money for too long and now we're going to pay the price. As the old question goes, "What happens when the lords have more power than the king?"

I wonder what their idea of the outcome is.
Tankie: "I convinced 20 Democratic Party voters to stay at home (and did the same for 0 Republican Party voters). Wait until Democratic politicians see that more voters favored the far right party. Then they're going to move left and fall on their knees and beg me to forgive them."
(Cue scene: swastika-adorned tanks rolling past the window)
"Stupid liberals, unwilling to fight the fascists like us true leftists." (Watches tanks and twiddles thumbs.) (Fetches keyboard.) "Let's tell everyone online that it's their own fault and they deserve this." (Sudden sound of harsh knocking on front door.)
At best, their actions will "only" cause another grid-locked presidency where progressives can't get their reforms to pass (which will then be used as the reason to abandon the likely last line of non-violent defense against fascists).
- Well said.

I can't believe France wom that election
- The French flag is blue/white/red, it could be the Dutch or Paraguayan flags flippes on their sides for example.
  
  Ir it could be the hcnerF

It's entirely the Democratic Party's fault if Trump wins another term. But their online cheerleaders are so keen to blame Communists who are such a miniscule percentage of the voting population. Are you going to start Muslim-bashing as well if they don't turn out in huge numbers to vote for Joenicide?
The sole "Trump will be worse" pitch and constant hostility is absolutely pathetic, and not an election winning strategy. Even your own party leadership knows it. The disconnect between the actual party and it's online supporters is huge.
- Chips act, green energy, union empowerment, student debt, marijuana reform, etc etc etc. Anyone that says Biden isn’t doing anything is wilfully ignorant.
  
  I'm waiting for the full student debt relief and pardons for everyone currently jailed for marijuana. It's better than nothing, but not enough to change the slow decay. Third party or bust.
  
  do you even read the comments you reply to
  
  100%. Biden is a great president who has accomplished a shitload. I appreciate everyone of you out here who can ignore the bullshit and see the signal.
- Personally if Trump wins another term I'll blame right wing propagandists and his voters.
  
  The hivemind in this comment is strong. When you lose in Rock Paper Scissors, do you "blame" the other person?
  Whether or not you blame Trump's supporters (who want the credit for a victory) or Communists (who want something new), you don't gain anything.
  
  I mean, you could blame a wasp for stinging you, but what's it going to do? It's a wasp.
- Is it the Democratic Party’s job to spoon-feed everyone the reasons why trump is bad, and despite the lack of press, explain the good things they have done? Because it’s people like you who just spout the negatives and never point out the positives to balance against the potential fallout. You know, the line that goes like “The Dems have absolutely done [bad shit] but we have this [good shit over here] and obviously the republicans and trump want to undo all the [good shit] and are going to do their damndest to impose a fascist dictatorship.
  The sole "Trump will be worse" pitch and constant hostility is absolutely pathetic…
  Bullshit. It’s a valid reason. Again, I refer to my comment that there is some implication that people need to be spoon-fed. People need to take some damn responsibility and learn the differences themselves, that’s why we have the premise (as deeply flawed as it seems these days) that the people are supposed to be in charge of who gets elected. So if all you hear is “Trump bad” that’s your own damn fault for not taking a few minutes to figure out why, not the democratic party’s fault.
- No, no, no. The GOP is despicable and irresponsible. They are to blame for all of this.
  
  Really? Because in the last 40 years, we've had a mix of Republicans and Democrats in power, yet here we are. Something's got to change.
  
  The fact that I'm getting downvotes shows the_donald is in this thread.
- Are you going to start Muslim-bashing as well if they don’t turn out in huge numbers to vote for Joenicide?
  I don't do the muslim bashing thing, but I do think the TikTok influencers convincing impressionable youth that A) there's a genocide happening (it's not) and B) not voting will make things better.
  Foreign policy is foreign policy. Global interests don't change on a dime. The main difference between Biden and Trump is that Trump would be cheerleading Netanyahu and telling him he shouldn't be doing targetted airstrikes but instead carpet bomb entire neighborhoods. The US woulb be making zero effort in negotiating a ceasefire and there would not be a pier built to help distribute food.
  Only an idiot would think that demanding the faculty of a university to do someone the bring about the end of a foreign conflict will accomplish anything. But the point of these pro-palestinian movements isn't to accomplish anything, it's all performative. It's just a reason to hang out in a tent with some friends and get social media clout.
  Anyone with half a brain that actually cared about Palestinians would be voting for Biden and doing everything they could to get him re-elected because it's obvious how much worse things will be for Palestinians with Trump as President. Like how much do you think Trump will do to help in reconstruction of Gaza after the war is over?
  But the Pro-Palestinian movement is mostly performative and they don't really care about Palestinians. If more Palestinians die, it'll be a good reason to have more fun get-togethers to "protest", more money to be made for TikTok influencers, and more donations to terrorist factions in Palestine. The suffering of Palestinians is very profitable for a lot of people.
  Joe Biden cares more about Palestinians than you do.
- It’s entirely the Democratic Party’s fault if Trump wins another term.
  lol

Oh wow now they're Trump supporters and Communists? LMAO
This is getting ridiculous.
- They are not team blue so they are team bad. The rules of ~~football~~ politics are simple
  
  Team blue is team bad. It's just that team red is even worse.
  But if we always follow this logic, we may as well allow them both to enshittify eternally, because reps will be just a bit more evil, and dems won't have the incentive to improve, either.
  The question is: at which point should Dems be taught a lesson and how? Is current voting a good avenue for that?
- You're absolutely right, it IS ridiculous how many supposedly left-leaning people are willing and even eager to see a Trump presidency to 'get one over on the shitlibs'.
  
  The convention could always select a different democrat. Or it could have if the democrats hadn't purposely put it after the ballot deadline in many states so Biden would already be on the ballot, before the convention that supposedly nominates him.
  It's just not the either/or situation you're looking for. It's entirely possible to be so disgusted by the state of American politics that you just don't vote. Or you vote third party. Your memes are having a negative impact at this point. Nobody who was on the fence is going to say, "Oh gosh I don't want to be commie, I better vote Joe!"
- They want Donald to win so that China gains ground. They claim to love leftist economies but are simping for countries that produce plenty of billionaires.
  
  The trade war with China might be a way to assert US dominance and squash the competition, but in the grand scheme of things, protectionist policies are very bad for the global economy and global progress.
  And leftists typically are internationalists, putting global efforts above national ones.
  So it's not just love for China, even if Lemmygrad and Hexbear folks are really unhealthily obsessed with the country.
  
  Billionaires are just symptomatic of Socialism with Chinese Characteristics!

The biggest joke here is that US voters will ever be able to directly vote for the President
- I'm hopeful for the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, but not holding my breath.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact
  
  Given how corrupt SCOTUS is, I'd bet on this immediately getting shot down even if it had the electoral votes at this point.

So how is the whole "blame-leftists-for-the-abysmal-failure-of-our-fake-democracy" gaslighting project going?
It seems a bit laggy.

I'm so glad that I live outside the US. Not that we have good options but at least more than 2. I guess I would still vote for Biden but I wouldn't call it a democracy
- And we never even get the chance to vote against capitalism. Or the status quo.
  
  Same here. That's why I said we have no good options either
- If we had more options then it would be Bernie Sanders
- The US is mostly a democracy. It could be a full democracy if they got rid of the Electoral College, put in non-partisan election commissions (to prevent gerry-mandering) and had a formalized run-off system instead of a creaky old primary system. Their system is antiquated but it works most of the time, but the "mostly works" part of it means there's not a lot of pressure to make improvements so the US could be a democracy all of the time.
  
  Still wouldn't be truly democratic if the media institutions are owned by the ultra wealthy, and parties only in power by gaining support from the ultra wealthy. It would be better, and I do not oppose these fixes, but it wouldn't be complete.

Try to think beyond your adorable little "protest vote" when your choices are between boring corporatists and 100% concentrated evil. Or you may never have to worry about voting ever again.
- Not to mention Trump would be an even bigger supporter of Israel than Biden.

OP does not know what a tankie is.
- An authoritarian self-proclaimed 'leftist' who loudly decries anything that's not 100% in-line with their desires as 'shitlib' policy that must be opposed even at the cost of ushering in actual fascism. This actual fascism is also often described by tankies as 'not that bad' or 'the exact same' as the 'shitlib' policies they oppose. Dissenters are inevitably reactionaries who must be (often literally) crushed, as they don't reflect the TRUE will of the people (ie whatever the opinion of the tankie is).
  
  Wow… no notes
  
  As opposed to the liberals who decry anything to their left as tanky?
  
  The issue here is that Dems also go to the fascist state, they just always do it a bit slower to still be selected because "at least they are not THAT bad".
  The question is, at what point should they learn a lesson to revise their playbooks and stop the corruption and enshittification? What should that lesson be? Could voting them out push them to pursue a more fair policy that actually caters to the needs of the people?
  
  loudly decries anything that's not 100% in-line with their desires as 'shitlib' policy that must be opposed even at the cost of ushering in actual fascism
  Wrong. They love and support Russia, China and N-Korea for some weird reason
- PJ just likes to start shit so they can argue with people.
  
  Spent all day on this thread insulting people and trying to be a smartass. As if that is going to change anyone's mind. What an absolute tool.

Oh, the massive hypocrisy of Biden refusing to swallow his Zionist principles and stop their Genocide, whilst at the same time sending his tribe's peons around to try and convince millions of people to swallow their Humanist principles and vote for a guy who supports Genocide.
Biden could pretty much guarantee a win tomorrow by announcing that it has been determined that Israel is indeed committing war crimes, followed by cutting support for them as per the Law when the recipient of help is committing such crimes, ideally followed by sanctions.
Yet he doesn't and instead there's a clear propaganda op with repeated variations of the claim that "Not being for Biden is being for Trump" (which, curiously, is just the authoritarianist argument "those who are not with us are agains us").
Why does the supposedly elected representative of all Americans firmly refuse to follow Americans as they turned against the Zionist Genocide and instead acts like all dictators by doing what he himself wants disregarding the will of those he is supposed to represent?
The argument of this and other similar posts which have innundated Lemmy would be a lot stronger if Biden wasn't an example of doing the exact opposite of what these posts demand from others, both the part of doing whatever it takes to stop Trump (which, as I explained above. Biden is not) and swallowing one's principles to stop something worse (i.e. Biden stopping acting as a Zionist in order to secure the votes to guarantee that Trump is stopped).
- Biden could pretty much guarantee a win tomorrow by announcing that it has been determined that Israel is indeed committing war crimes, followed by cutting support for them as per the Law when the recipient of help is committing such crimes, ideally followed by sanctions.
  I wish this was true but it very much isn't. He'd immediately lose Pennsylvania, at a minimum.
  
  There are more jews against the Israeli government at this point than for it. Yes he'd need to walk a line but that's true of any campaign. The line he's on right now sure as hell ain't working.
- Biden could pretty much guarantee a win tomorrow by announcing that it has been determined that Israel is indeed committing war crimes, followed by cutting support for them as per the Law when the recipient of help is committing such crimes, ideally followed by sanctions.
  My favorite part is where no amount of evidence that the US electorate doesn't actually back this idea up doesn't stop Very Serious Leftists(tm) from parroting it over and over and over again.
  
  Ah, an Ad Hominen: hadn't seen one of those in at least 5 minutes.
  How about you address my point that Biden isn't willing to abdicate just one of his principles (support for Zionism, which is not even an especially moral one) to "Stop Trump" whilst sending peons of his tribe around demanding that millions abdicate their principles (and Humanist ones, which are about the most Moral principles one can have) and vote for him - somebody supporting an ongoing Genocide - to "Stop Trump".
  
  I also love how they act like Biden is in charge of conflict in the middle east and wars being waged by other nations and is just choosing to be a comic book villain that likes genocide. Its such a fucking child's interpretation of international relations. Biden is in an incredibly hard spot that he didn't choose, and all these assholes act like he is in charge while also 50% of the time ignoring or making excuses for Hamas's role. Like, they literally have more scorn for Biden than Hamas.

Ah the daily fascism discourse multiplier thread. There's never any meaningful discourse that comes out of these: just divisive kafkaesque noise.
- Seems to be just what op wants based on their posts and comments. Just trying to stir up shit but mods won't do anything
- Fuck discourse. I'm looking for like-minded people to fight fascism with me while telling authenticity tripping lefties who are on the fence to pull their heads out of their asses to help prevent a fascist from getting power again.
  For all the non-Americans out there who don't have their own fascism problem in their nations--first off, that's nice, lucky you and secondly, sorry.
  
  Do you think that writing angry words at them is going to change someone's mind?
  
  Look at this fucking tankie over here amirite guys? Fucking guy thinks he'll replace one authoritative regimen with his own but this one will be ok cuz its his.. right guys!
  Got him !

That's just the tip of the iceberg.
They often help fascists in the doxxing and smear campaign of more libertarian leftists, as an example.
- libertarian leftists? That's an oxymoron.
  
  Oh, here comes the "right is small government, left is big government" conservative!🤣
- As long as they include conservative libertarians like Bill Maher

oh yeah the notoriously huge and election-swinging group in the us: the communists.
don't delegate your problems.
- yeah pretty sure communists haven't decided/altered the result of any state or federal election in the past 20 years at minimum. probably more like the past 60-80 years

Winner: Democrat - "still fascism but its blue so its OK"
- Yeah a lot of sheltered but edgy teens take this stance. To be bothsidesing, one has to be privileged enough to not notice SCOTUS eroding their neighbors' human rights. Something like mommy and daddy have a fat chunk of capital, living on a college campus, that sort of thing.
  
  Bidens pushing legislation that removes all the red tape from stripping leftist orgs of non profit status, and legislation to make ANY CRITICISM AT ALL of Israel legally antisemitic so the Dept of education can strip any school that allows pro Palestinian protests of finding and accreditation.
  TLDR Dems love fascism as long as its wearing a blue cape instead of red.
  
  And what have Democrats done to fight back against the current illegitimate court?
- "I literally can't see the difference between this and the DEMONRATS" - Useful Idiots for the Far-Right
  
  "the only way to defeat fascism is by sprinting farther right and doing fascism ourselves but blue so its ok"
  -fascists who are in league with the fascists they claim to oppose because thats how corporatocracy and controlled opposition work

"I have been heard loud and clear. Now I sit and lay back like I always do anyway, and wait while fondling my purity then absent-mindedly yet lovingly sniffing my fingers, any moment now they will cater to me."

At this point you guys should just take all the time it takes to argue "tankies" for HOURS at end and make these low tier memes and just form your own political party.
- Two minutes is probably all that's necessary.
  Maybe a week long festival in the late summer.

Not a communist, but I think I will vote for the person who most represents my values and policies this year.
- It's surreal how such a comment is downvoted. In democracy you are supposed to vote with your conscience. If you are bullied to vote for someone under threat of loosing democracy...you already lost it.
  If Democrats want to win then they must deserve that vote. What they want is a blank check to do what they please and the voter has to take it or else Trump. Fuck that. It's their responsibility, not the voters! You play this game and they'll know they can do what they want as long as there's a boogeyman. You'll be a democracy just in name. On the long term you'll be just as fucked as with Trump.
  It's not the voters who are running against Trump. If Biden wants to win, then he should win by earning the most votes. Period. Democracy isn't easy.
- Most closely represents your values or has the best chance of representing your values?
  
  Most closely represents my values.
- Does that person have a chance of winning, or are you saying "It's okay if a fascist wins, so long as I can feel good about myself"?
  
  Folks who think Biden and Trump are the same are folks who are privileged enough to not be effected by the outcome of this election. To them they are the same because roe v Wade didn't affect them. Student loan debt forgiveness didn't affect them. Socialized healthcare didn't affect them.
  And if it did, it just goes to show how strong the tankie propaganda machine is. It's all or nothing with these people and history has shown that line of thinking is soaked in blood and betrayal.
  
  Oh, they probably don't.
- Same. I write in my own name to be sure my vote perfectly aligns with my morals.
  I mean sure, I know the person I vote for won’t win but I feel good inside even if women lose even more control over their bodies, GHG emissions get worse than they otherwise would, and Russia gets to do what it wants, etc.

Tankies when they finally create a dictatorship, only to work in the mines because the quota for poets was already met.

Wow if the folks on ml and hexbear could read, thry might be upset - not sure they'd understand the math in the 3rd panel.
- I thought ml was still federated with .world so they should be able to read it? I don’t think hexbear is though. Or you mean they are illiterate?
  
  "If X could read" is a meme implying illiteracy, yes.
  Hexbear and Lemmygrad are defederated from .world, but .ml remains, you are correct.
  
  World defederated from two of them them, but not the other way around so they could ALL still see posts from World; World just doesn't see posts from them.

Reductive. Neoliberalism protects and foments fascism as we ratchet a little further to the right each election cycle.
- The reason why the rachet turns further to the right each election cycle is because non-conservatives in the US have an abysmal voter turnout.
  Neoliberalism is the product of leftists deciding not to vote because there's no "good" option, and leftists will perpetuate this cycle by refusing to acknowledge incremental progress as a good thing.
  
  If only there was a way to increase voter turnout, like giving voters what they want... nah, that'd make too much sense. The democrats are too smart to give people what they want.
  
  Neoliberalism exists for many reasons. But blaming leftists is strange. We would be a lot better off if voting was not so hard for black and brown people, for instance. We can at least agree on that.
  
  No one will vote for our shitty candidates.
  Should we run better ones?
  No blame the people for us not having a good candidate
- Even if we assume for the sake of the argument that your ridiculous assertion is true, "Let's do fascism faster" is exactly the kind of bootlicking take I would expect from a tankie.
  
  Never said I was a tankie bruh. A party that bases itself on a slightly more gentle fascism isn't the cart we should be attaching ourselves to.
  It will never ever be the right election for y'all liberal centrists who shit post on left folks. It is always the next one. Point is, if we want to be rid of this fucking fascist shit, we have to build solidarity with the left.
- Use normal words. You are trying intimidate people with confidence and you just end up not making any sort of point. If we vote the right people in and the right people do their job it isn't fascist. We aren't in a fascist regime. You are the only one being "reductive".
  
  The meme oversimplifies what is happening. Our politics has been drifting further to the right with each election and the people in power are fine with that, regardless of whatever party they're a part of.
  there you go
  
  Those are normal words, I apologize for not being the right kind of articulate for you. we have been moving right for 40 plus years. Both parties have been complicit. We fight endless wars under both parties. We have lost access to inexpensive higher education under both parties. We have lost the battle to the healthcare industry under both parties. We have seen the rise of the military police state under both parties. We have become spied on in every facet of life under both parties. Our public infrastructure is falling apart and being deregulated under both parties. We have seen the militarization of our borders under both parties.
  These are real material problems that we continue to ignore with the focus on these two parties. We've seen a modicum of progress in certain areas, but there has been a lot of loss of freedom and liberty.
- A meme? REDUCTIVE?
  Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

lol we already have fascism. They’re crushing antiwar protests, the media is in lockstep, labor demonstrations have been broken and they’re pissing away the cost of healthcare, free college and any number of other benefits on supplying a genocide.
I’m never gonna vote for Biden again and if you don’t want to either, consider voting for the party for socialism and liberation.
You don’t have to support the genocide.
- No I'm not going to throw away my chance to reduce suffering on pitching a fit.
  
  It’s not pitching a fit to recognize that both of the two major parties candidates are unacceptable.
  There’s a big difference between pitching a fit and saying “genocide is my red line.”
  What’s your red line? What would cause you to vote third party instead of Biden?
- and remember the alternative to Biden is worse.. so I think you are a plant.
  
  Of course it is. The whole reason Trump won the first time around was because enough people wouldn't hold their nose for Hillary in the right states.
  Imagine the world if they did, with her choices for three justices (not to mention the 231 appointments in lower courts), and the handling of COVID.
  Buttery males. 2024 is just a reboot of 2016.
  
  but if youbdont like Biden's position, feel free to vote in more libral people to Congress, particularly if you are in a left leaning state
  
  Will you always pick the “better” of the two parties? If not, how bad does it need to get before you vote third party? I like to ask it this way: where’s your red line?
- The reason we're seeing libs get into such a tizzy about it all of a sudden is because it's finally being pointed inwards.

fighting fascism
Seeing how the us turns into France

Well, I doubt even now citizens of any former Soviet Republic can vote for Biden.

See I think most on here are Republican Plants, Why simple they seem to not grasp Biden votes with the middle of his party. At the very core a politition thus his position changes with the party..
In many ways this makes him a good if not boring president.
Why, well if you elect people into Congress that generally vote with the Democrats that are alighned diffrently his votes will match.
People complain (including myself) about his non questioning support of Netanyahu, but look at how few members of Congress challenge that? yes Sanders did specifically on the isreal issue.. but who else even of the extream left?
- Same. It’s the typical online right wing troll tactic to pose as the other side and act like the most uneducated fucking idiots to make decent people question their ideals. But because they truly are idiots they make it too obvious with the “Biden bad” - no true progressive would be so stupid to reduce the issue this one-dimensionally.
  So yeah when you see people going on about how Biden is responsible for the situation in Gaza, its very likely they’re Groipers, Proud Boys, or some other type of internet filth.

🥱

The Democrats and Republicans are all friends after hours. They meet up for dinner, have drinks, laugh, and then go back to their jobs in the morning.
- How wonderful if that were true. It used to be commonplace and it made it harder to demonize the other side. People were able to compromise and work together on things. Now that they can't spend evenings reaffirming their mutual humanity, they spend their days talking past each other.
- Nobody meets MTG or Boebert for after work drinks, trust me

Why is the the voters obligation to vote for shitty candidates rather than in the candidates to earn the vote? Biden is looking at a close race and the majority of voters want a cease fire.
- Why is the the voters obligation to vote for shitty candidates rather than in the candidates to earn the vote?
  It's our obligation as voters, as people entrusted with political power, to do what we can to steer our polity towards the least destructive and immoral path that we can.
  "JOE BIBEN HASN'T EARNED MY VOTE" doesn't mean jack fucking shit. The point of a citizen's duty is not to suck off the right people - it's to protect one's fellow citizens, and ideally, members of other polities as well.
  Voting isn't a fucking judgement of who's moral enough to go to democracy fucking heaven - voting is a judgement of who is least objectionable in steering the future of the polity - including considering the likelihood of success.
  Sorry that using political power responsibly is such a foreign concept to you.
  Biden is looking at a close race and the majority of voters want a cease fire.
  The majority of voters want a cease-fire. You want to tell me what the majority of voters want the US to do to achieve a ceasefire?
  Most US voters are not in favor of more stringent terms than what Biden has already proposed.
  This idea that the US electorate is as left as the Fediverse is just... fucking bizarre.
  
  You dont get those changes by just blindly voting against the Republicans. You have to actually pressure your candidates into supporting what you want. Companies and lobbiests are able to do this with giant sacks of cash. Normal people do it by protesting and making demands of their officials to force a response. Showing nothing but contempt for anti-war protests is always a bad look for a president running for reelection.
  Biden has all the leverage on Israel to make them stop the killing. He can threaten to pull military aid, send in US forces to distribute humanitarian aid, or put sanctions on Israel. All of those would stop the killing, making people angry at the US response willing to vote for Biden, paving a path for his re-election. Why are you so against him forcing Israel to stop the genocide if it is his only path to victory?
  
  No. There is no moral responsibility to vote for someone who hasn't earned that vote. That's a construct meant to remove the politician's responsibility to their constituents. An Astroturf by the donor class to protect their influence. Stop doing their work for them. They don't care about you beyond how much money you can make them.
  
  The point of a citizens duty is not to suck off the right people
  spends multiple paragraphs over multiple comments explaining why their entire political ideology is that its a citizens duty to suck off the right people
  
  Based
- Idk how we got here. Imo it’s mainly because for some reason, we no longer give agency to republicans.
  If voting for a third party is immoral, then 1/3 of the US is being very immoral.
  Voting used to be a private choice, hence why you go into a little booth. It was your moral obligation to vote to the best of your abilities, your choice was personal.
- Donald will not do better for you on your wedge issue and he did an insurrection. You want the guy who tweeted nuclear threats to Iran to take over on this conflict? Misguided.
- If you're still asking a candidate to earn your vote when the other guy is selling copies of the constitution with the 13th and 19th amendments omitted, you're just a fascist who doesn't want the social stigma that comes with being an open fascist.
  
  If you're supporting a candidate giving bombs to a genocidal, ethnostate apartheid regime, while condemning protests against that at home what are you besides a blue fascist?

300k to 200k in my state. It will be fine that being said other states it may make more of a difference

Just like when they taught Hillary Clinton a lesson. That worked or well for everyone, right?
- To be fair, Joe Biden is better than Hillary Clinton.
- She won the popular vote... The US just has a shit democracy.

That's a horrible waste of a vote. Please vote third party instead of not voting 🙂
- This is the problem.
  
  I really don't think you should just not vote, friend but I guess that's your choice too. 🙂

This meme is the classic them vs us, which by itself is how facism starts. The world is not so black and white. If I was American and could vote, then I would vote some third party that actually represents my views, since that is the only choice that would make sense. Also tankies criticised both trump and biden as we'll, it's not bad to be against the mainstream, if both options are shit. If everyone would think more critical this situation would not exist.
- Nobody wants it to be us vs. them but as you say fascist movements are us vs. them. When there are fascist movements in existence it is us vs. them whether you want it to be or not because they make it them vs. us. It doesn't matter how hard you hold your eyes shut and cover your ears, the fascists are there and if you're not in their movement they are against you.
  It's not all doom and gloom yet. Most fascist movements fade away and die out. But it behooves the non-fascists to help that outcome occur. Pretending fascists don't exist doesn't help achieve that outcome and risks there being a very doom and gloom outcome.

But this is the whole point of the ~~red fascists~~ tankies
- Indeed vote for the ~~blue fascists~~ tankies

This message condones 80,000 votes for explicit fascism before accepting a single communist abstention.
Wtf is this messaging.
- Meme illiteracy is a terrible plague
  
  If you're out here everyday arguing Tankies are Fascists, then it is a bit curious you'd make something where 80,001 fascists are protrayed and the one fascist that actively doesn't vote for fascism, the tankie, is considered the problem.
  Out of all the 80,001 fascists: this one chose to abstain from voting for fascism. That one deserves the scrutiny, the criticism, the exorication, because...

Ah yes, a system that is nothing like the American one, one without the electoral college.
Is this strawman clueless, or do you have no idea whats going on.
- Would it help you to pretend it's a state tally after the third recount of a Florida district? Are you familiar with President George W Bush?
  Like, come on. You understand the meme, and you're just being pedantic.
  
  The main thing I draw issue with is the fact many states are not swing states. If I live in Alabama, what are the odds that biden wins that state?
  Tell me, if I live in alabama, will my vote for biden influence the election at all? Or will it come down to voters in michigan or florida or some other swing state.
  I do understand the meme, but I also understand that swing states decide the election. Your impact of your vote is determined by your location.
  
  You understand the meme, and you’re just being pedantic.
  They're being disingenuous, which is worse.
- It's just more threats and insults for progressives that refuse to just toe the line. Don't you know a proper leftist/progressive/liberal is obedient?

I don't think you understand, having a fascist shithead in charge of the US is precisely the goal of these fine folks on .ml and .hexbear.
They want the us to be as equally fucked and censured as china. It's their only hope for not being the internet's laughingstock for another couple decades.
- At the risk of getting downvoted into oblivion, this is not a fair representation of their complaints or desires. Maybe a minority of them want what you described.
  It's actually possible for our government to be more democratic if we could remove capitalist interference from our government structure.
  Your democracy is a sham and here's why.
  
  The .ml users who are urging everyone to not vote don't agree.
  It is obvious that it would be easier to reach better governance without having a wannabe dictator in the executive branch appointing theocratic clowns into judgeships. But they actually want Donald in there to destabilize the US so that China can gain ground.
  They don't even deny it, I get reactions from them on a spectrum from "based based based based" to "any amount of collateral damage to minorities or surrounding countries is acceptable as long as colonialists are being genocided."
  
  The problem is, yes government could and I would argue should be more democratic. But that isn't how Leninism/stalinism/Maoism works. We have problems with adequate representation with two parties. Those groups want only one. And traditionally that party doesn't take kindly to dissent. Rather than listening and adjusting policy to better address people. They simply exclude you from society if you're lucky. Lock you up, brutalize you. And if they don't think they've adequately broken you, kill you.
  We need to remove authoritarian and private control of government. Capitalism would follow eventually. The problem is. That's impossible with capitalists and ML alike.
  
  It's not a good faith argument. They don't want to question their support for Biden. So instead of actually thinking critically they make shit up so they can dismiss any criticism that would force them to actually think.
- stop giving us shitty choices
  these guys want fascist shit heads
  
  stop giving us shitty choices
  *these guys want fascist shit heads *
  "I'm unhappy with the shitty choices, so I'm going with the fascist shithead" is a rather fascist thing to say.

PugJesus doing God's work
- *PugGod's work.
  
  May many respiratorially challenged small dogs bless you, my children ✋

Hmmm, today i will attack any attempts to run a better candidate against trump
- The US system doesn’t work that way. You have a choice between two people. A vote for a third party is a vote not counted.
  
  You're so engrossed in talking over the other person that you failed to read what they said.
  They said "Run a better candidate against" Trump which IS possible to do by the DNC.
  
  Right, trump vs another candidate. Biden is awful and is the reason why the election is in any kind of jeopardy. But when trump wins in november there'll be no self awareness to be found, that people were promoting an unviable candidate that no one likes.
  
  Maybe the US system doesn't work that way because people keep screaming at everyone who doesn't vote for their one party vs the only other. It's really odd to claim that your vote matters and then yell at anyone who tries to do anything with their vote other than to guarantee their vote for one of two parties. If the argument is to preserve democracy, well, it already looks like we don't have democracy.
- This election is already full.
  I hope progressives are building a candidate for the next election. It takes years
  
  I still remember 2020, progressives were bartering "just elect Biden this time, then next election we can elect AOC or Bernie".
  
  Progressives are excessively difficult to win support from the Dems or Reps due to campaign interests and media spin. The only candidates that recieve enough backing are the ones that pose no danger to the wealthy Capitalists.
  
  Well then we can still pressure Biden to do the right thing. The election is still 6 months away, not next week. Blind support for Biden will not make anything better.
- Have you been voting in all of your local elections and primarys?
  If not, then you haven't done anything at all to get a better candidate against anyone.
  
  I've been voting in local and state elections for the last 24 years. When will that produce a better candidate?

Fan fact: if all democrats witheld the vote the republicans couldn't govern either. That way we could get rid of both rotten parties.
- Fan fact: if all democrats witheld the vote the republicans couldn’t govern either.
  I don't think you understand how elections work, considering that the Republicans would still be voting.
  
  I understand that if not even at least half of the population vote at all, the winner party can't represent the whole country. Am I correct? I.e: if only 30% of population vote it doesn't matter who win, because most of the population didn't participate.

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