Why isn't jerking off more valorized as an easy dopamine hit that's also literally good for you?
people have been demonizing it for most of the AD years i think but it's quite pleasant really. are there any proven negative effects?
Religion
I'd like to go a bit deeper.
I don't think people invented socially controlling practices because they found religion, I think they found religion to frame the invention of socially controlling practices.
Masturbation is a gratifying act that relives pressure to settle into a rigid domestic arrangement that serves to make more workers and soldiers, and create dependents that need fed, and whose well-being would be threatened if a parent became defiant and provoked the ire of elites.
Masturbation is good for the individual at the expense of the nation and its rulers. So it's inevitable that priests would decry it as an affront against god, as that's historically been their purpose.
Pretty sad when religion claims to abhor evil, happens to be the source of a lot of it. Right? I can’t name a single thing religion ever did for me other than make me miserable.
I don't think it's the source. I think it's a tool of social control that enables the powerful to create a bare minimum willingness to be ruled. For a long time the doctrine of Christianity was the Divine Right of Kings. Now it's the Prosperity Gospel. The books did not change but the people with all the money and power ensured the church leaders who served their interest had most of the money and thus followers.
If we didn't have religion, some other social construct would arise, and I'd argue, has arisen to fulfill it's role. Modern economic theory justifies the current power order in an unfalsifiable way that reminds me of religion.
Religion could be a liberatory force in society. In fact it has been. The liberation theology movement in South America and numerous heretical movements in the late medieval period are both examples of progressive Christian social movements.
Christianity and capitalism. If it doesn't make you feel guilty the Christians don't like it and if you can provide it to yourself for free the capitalists don't like it.
So, like, for the bulk of history, the people demonizing it are religious assholes.
They demonized sex out of wedlock, demonized wanking off; and any other kind of sexual release, while simultaneously deciding who you can marry (and therefore have kids with,).
It’s one of their core methods of social control, ensuring wealth is only passed on to children of wealthy and “faithful” families.
I posted a comment impulsively, then saw that you already gave the same answer better.
They also practiced polygamy, so that rich and influential men would have multiple wives and poor men would have none. Imagine the rage when you were a Shepherd tending someone else's flocks, knowing that you will never have a wife or family.
It makes sense to have occasional wars with neighboring tribes so that excess males can be removed from the system.
Masturbation is totally normal and healthy, and you're spot on that it shouldn't be demonized or shamed. In men, it might even reduce the risk of prostate cancer.
At the same time, it's important to have a balanced and psychologically flexible relationship with masturbation and sexuality. As psychologist Steven Hayes, a leading expert on psychological flexibility, explains: getting too fixated on any one activity or coping mechanism, even a healthy one, can lead to psychological inflexibility if it is used to avoid experiencing your life fully (For a thorough explanation of how this works, feel free to check out A Liberated Mind by Steven Hayes). Psychological inflexibility here means getting stuck in rigid behavior patterns to the point that it messes with living a full and meaningful life.
So while I'm totally with you that masturbation is healthy and that bullshit social taboos against it should be rejected, it's also good to be mindful about your motivation behind doing it. Are you doing it because you're escaping pain? Or are you doing it because it aligns with your values and makes your life meaningful? If you rely on masturbation too much and don't have ways of accepting your emotions and connecting with the world, it could potentially tip into unhelpful psychological rigidity and a frustrating life. The key is to be able to experience masturbation while still staying flexible enough to show up fully for the rest of your life too.
What if I'm masturbating because my body demands I masturbate when I look at porn, even though I'd rather just look at porn without masturbating?
Thanks for the response. What you're describing - feeling a bodily urge to masturbate when viewing porn, even if you'd prefer not to - is very common. We're kinda designed so that our bodies respond to sexual stimuli. Many people can relate to that internal tug-of-war between an impulse and a conflicting desire.
From a psychological flexibility perspective, the key is to approach those urges with mindful acceptance rather than struggle against them. Fighting with or trying to suppress an urge often just makes it grow stronger, like a beach ball you keep trying to push underwater - it keeps popping back up with greater force (1). Instead, psychological flexibility invites us to open up and make room for the urge, observing it with curiosity and letting it be fully present in our awareness.
This doesn't mean you have to act on the urge. In fact, by giving it space to exist without resistance, you gain the ability to unhook from it and consciously choose how to respond in line with your values (2). You might say to yourself "I'm having the thought that I need to masturbate right now" and feel the sensations of that urge in your body, while still maintaining the freedom to decide if acting on it is truly what you want.
Imagine for a moment that a dear friend or loved one came to you struggling with this same dilemma. How would you respond to them? Most likely with compassion, understanding, and encouragement to be kind to themselves as they navigate this very human challenge. We could all benefit from extending that same caring response to ourselves.
At the end of the day, you're the expert on your own life and what matters most to you. By practicing acceptance of your inner experiences, unhooking from unhelpful thoughts and urges, and clarifying what you truly value, you can develop psychological flexibility to pursue a rich and meaningful life - whatever that looks like for you. That means that there's no one "right" way to relate to masturbation and porn. The invitation is to approach it mindfully and make choices that align with the kind of person you want to be.
(1) You can check out the "rebound effect" or "ironic process theory." It's been studied extensively in the context of thought suppression. The seminal paper on the topic is Wegner, D. M., Schneider, D. J., Carter, S. R., & White, T. L. (1987). Paradoxical effects of thought suppression. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 53(1), 5–13. https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.53.1.5
(2) This meta-analysis reviewed laboratory-based studies testing the components of the psychological flexibility model, and how psychological flexibility techniques increase behavioral flexibility. Levin, M. E., Hildebrandt, M. J., Lillis, J., & Hayes, S. C. (2012). The impact of treatment components suggested by the psychological flexibility model: A meta-analysis of laboratory-based component studies. Behavior Therapy, 43(4), 741-756. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.beth.2012.05.003
Thank you... most of the responses in this thread are really immature, arrogant, entitled, and pretty fucking cynical.
I work with people with severe depression and also the occasional sex/porn addict. Sexuality can lead us to some healthy lifestyles and can function as a healthy coping skill but it's also one that's easy to overdo. There are folks out there who try to treat their depression by masturbating all day long. They're desperate for any hit of pleasure, and they have quite literally milked that cow dry.
This post reminds me of the Reddit marijuana communities, that rubber-banded so far beyond reasonable moderated consumption of a helpful medicine, but refused to see how maladaptive their ritual had become. No one in this thread is questioning the original premise. "But it's so good!" That's the immature, arrogant part. And the entitled part is the attitude that any criticism of my precious coping tool is a threat to my hollow happiness, and the cynicism is that the only reason to criticize it is because of a corrupt society! Jesus fucking christ this thread broke my brain, you all broke my brain, we all suck.
I've ended up having sex with my marijuana and smoking my semen.. And I can't help but ask myself, where did it all go wrong?
Psychological inflexibility here means getting stuck in rigid behavior patterns to the point that it messes with living a full and meaningful life.
Rigid behavioral patterns like having to work 40 hours a week, shop, feed yourself, clean, do laundry, go to the doctor, pay bills and so on, over and over and over again for the rest of your life?
I mean that's definitely just a checkout aisle self-help book, though. Psychology, along with nutritional science and some other softer, more survey-based fields, has been suffering a pretty massive replication crisis, where something like 50% of papers are totally incapable of being replicated, depending on the journal and subject.
So I dunno, I'd generally be pretty skeptical of anything a book like that says about how you have to live your life or what you should be doing or how you should be doing it. Even if it's something like "mindfulness", right, generally thought to be a therapeutic practice, which we're extracting from zen buddhism or whatever, just like carl jung travels around and extracts a bunch of "archetypes" from other cultures and then supposes that they're universal when really it's all just kinda some schizo bullshit canon he's coming up with on the fly.
I uhh, I don't like the scientific paint that is painted onto psychology and psychotherapy, is I guess what I'm saying. The attempt at formalization. What is just as good for one person, to be mindful, is probably something that someone else should rather not think about at all. Maybe even as a functional adaptation, a functional delusion that they can go on believing, and still end up having a fulfilling and uplifting life for everyone around them.
I mean that’s definitely just a checkout aisle self-help book, though.
Hayes is not a checkout aisle self-help book lol he pioneered multiple major branches of CBT. that's like calling the Rolling Stones elevator music
I’d generally be pretty skeptical of anything a book like that says about how you have to live your life or what you should be doing or how you should be doing it
I admire the skepticism but you haven't read it and clearly haven't taken time to fully understand it. he isn't making prescriptive claims. he's speaking on behavioral science. "A happens, then B tends to happen. C happens, then D tends to happen. do what you will with this info."
I don’t like the scientific paint that is painted onto psychology and psychotherapy, is I guess what I’m saying.
i understand the apprehension about psychological research but it is fundamentally a subjective science - psychology is what makes subjectivity possible, after all! and we humans clearly need treatment. if everyone listened to the ideas you planted in here, then what would we do? not try any treatments at all? not test our treatments? not seek evidence that our treatments are working and improve them? not share our findings?
the issue fundamentally is that you need to learn more about reading and interpreting scientific literature. you're presenting a pseudo-intellectual skepticism which is admittedly a healthy protective mechanism from many things online, but is not going to be a useful attitude for all kinds of growth
im sorry im being a dick but this thread has funked up my barometer for crazy and i probably misinterpreted your level of it, be well
Jerking it is fine, but just like any coping mechanism, you can abuse it and get addicted to it, then it becomes a problem.
If you're doomscrolling porn, for example, then maybe it is having a negative effect on you.
Ejaculation lower the risk of prostate cancer, so masturbation should probably be medically advised to all men.
4-7 times a week is a good number according this study
Because you enjoy it. If you're fixing your issues, it must be through pain and suffering. If it doesn't involve pain and suffering, then it isn't fixing your issues. The "Protestant work ethic" doesn't come right out and say that, but it's the implication.
See also: denial of LSD and psilocybin for mental health purposes.
For the seminal analysis of this topics, there's Max Weber's book “The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism”. But it is really dry reading, so I would suggest finding some YouTube essay video that summarizes it.
Seminal. Heehee
What if I want a hot girl to cause me pain and suffering?
Death by snu snu!
Then it's the other way around obviously for more pain and suffering.
You can get a prescription for paid sex in the Netherlands if certain conditions apply, and other EU countries are exploring the option.
I don't know how hot she'd be though.
(Sing along with me)
Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is good
Every sperm is wanted
In your neighborhood
That last line made me change to Ray Parker Jr style funk.
"Bustin' makes me feel good!"
literally good for you
I actually asked my family doctor at one point about the health effects of masturbation. She said that as a guy, if you are not otherwise sexually active, it's good for the prostate to keep the plumbing working down there.
Religion, capitalism. Powerful groups want more people to have more children.
Luckily I'm in a progressive enough country that even in school we were taught that masturbation is a thing and not necessarily bad.
As for negative effects - if you do it TOO much, particularly with a very strong grip, then don't be surprised if, when having actual intercourse, you're just not feeling much and might be unable to reach orgasm. You might even be uninterested in your partner sexually. A few days without masturbation will fix it though, doesn't seem to be permanent. Day 2 without doing it and I couldn't keep my eyes (or hands) off my wife's body.
Sex was very infrequent for me and my wife in the last few months of her pregnancy, so that's how I know. Soon as we started doing it on a somewhat regular basis again, I opted to quit jerking it because I wanted to enjoy the real thing more, even if it's not every single day. No long-term negative effects that I've noticed.
Capitalism is powered by fapping, the fuck are you talking about?
A lot of the power users in this thread have clearly never heard of "sex sells".
A lot of religion has been to push a heterosexual couple together for the means of procreation. Masturbation has been seen as a way for people to lessen their urge to procreate in the appropriate canonical manner.
These days mutual masterbation is better for your relationship than having kids. It's not the kids fault, society has made having kids a nightmare.
And of course the reason it is demonized is that any powerfull organization/society needs peoples shoulder to stand on. So, the more people, the more power. And they don't really care if it was by rape due to sexual frustration, they just need more people to take advantage of.
Because easy dopamine hits are also easy to gain unhealthy addictions to. Because it's literally right there, easily accessible, at all times.
Couple this with how incredibly unhealthy the social relationships portrayed in most pornography are, and you're gearing up for a lot of young men addicted to wanking and having unrealistic expectations of sex. The porn young women read isn't necessarily much better, in the regard of healthy social sexual relationships.
Now, I'm not one of those weird "you shouldn't jerk it at all" folks because that's just extremism in the other direction.
Temperance and moderation are key in all things.
Porn “addiction” is a misnomer because it doesn’t have much in common with drug addiction, gambling addiction, etc. Porn “addicts”, when you show them images of porn, do not have brain responses like those of addicts who are shown images of whatever they’re addicted to.
But what is a great predictor for whether or not someone will self report being a porn addict is shame. Gay men in particular are significantly more likely than straight men in general to say they’re addicted to porn. So are straight men with a heavily religious background.
Which isn’t to say that people who report porn addictions aren’t really suffering, it’s just not the same as an actual addiction and is instead the result of living in a culture telling you that your normal sexual desires are wrong.
I actually agree. What's addicting is the hit of dopamine from sexual release, not the porn itself. I see porn as more like how people who quit smoking often still find something to fiddle with in their hands and mouth. Biting on pencils, straws, etc. because part of their ritual of using the substance involved taking out a cigarette and putting it up to their mouth. The act of viewing porn itself isn't the addiction, but it's associated with it.
Like I said, moderation is key, because there's a wide difference between masturbating a healthy amount and filling various cumjugs with figurines in them. Like if you can go out and live a normal life after jerking it, awesome, fuck yeah, that's great. If you can't make it through a workday without going to the bathroom to crank it, maybe you've got a fucking problem. I shouldn't have to deal with some fucking weirdo breathing heavily and shaking the whole stall next to me in the bathroom because they can't wait until they get home.
The porn is rather a social knock-on effect because people often seek out porn to make the pathway to dopamine release easier. The seeking of the orgasm has almost nothing to do with the societal implications of porn and its impact on relationships. However, the social impact is that people begin to associate unhealthy aspects of porn with a sex life and achieving orgasm in a sex life.
There are unfortunately deep layers of exploitation, unhealthy power dynamics, and control in porn that can be healthy between consenting adults who have achieved trust but some people really start digesting this porn before they're mature enough to know how to healthily navigate those issues (especially in a society that sure as fuck isn't teaching them, because of the aforementioned religious demonization of sex). This leads to further unhealthy experiences with sex, and I don't think the gay (and LGBTQ+ community as a whole for that matter) community is free from that exploitation or people being exposed to it before they've had to education to navigate it healthily either. In fact, as a minority group, I would rather think they're more likely to be exploited by the same people who hate their very existence... which further ingrains and exacerbates the very problems I'm speaking to, because the exploitation aspect of pornography is normalized. The areas that consume the most LGBT themed porn tend to be the most religiously restricted, and their viewpoint of that porn is almost 100% exploitative. To me it's a hard sell that that's not somehow a net negative for the LGBT community and that they're mostly being exploited in pornograhy and in sex work by the very people who want to demonize their very existence.
I, we all rather, are "addicted" to air, water, food, shelter, safety, rest, etc. - which as you say isn't the same as a true "addiction" at all. Wanting things that produce a healthy life is not a bad thing, and in fact quite the opposite. To the extent that religion or culture or whatever encourages the opposite (rather than e.g. moderation and consideration, like mindfulness), it is wrong and bad. Even for someone who believes in a God who is good, those false beliefs need to be cast aside, bc they hinder us from living well. I wish I had discovered this earlier in life.:-D
Couple this with how incredibly unhealthy the social relationships portrayed in most pornography are, and you’re gearing up for a lot of young men addicted to wanking and having unrealistic expectations of sex.
I don't really get this honestly. When people watch The Flash, they know that it's unrealistic for someone to move at that speed. When people read sci-fi, they know it's unrealistic to expect every problem to be solved by science in their lifetime. When people watch the show Superstore, they don't expect it to actually be a realistic representation on how a big box store runs. So I don't see why porn would be any different. They're all acting.
Probably to sell more Corn Flakes.
To be fair, they really taste better with milk.
You realize things aren't viewed the same all over the world right? Here in Sweden it's nothing bad or wrong, we generally have good sex education and parents that are fine with it as long as we keep it private and clean. And as adults it's completely normal, not that uncommon to talk about either. There was a monthly magazine for teens when I grew up that talked a lot about sex, sexual identity and stuff like that and the readers could send it questions to get answered by professionals or other readers. Very open and helped so many with things they didn't dare ask parents or others about and it was always a better source than the Internet when that came around. Pretty sure it's still a thing too.
So it's just seen as a thing everyone does and enjoys.
because suffering is fetishized
Religion that's why. They have to control you.
Tbh, I've tried it. It was pleasant.
We should create a community about that, so we can tell the world how great it was.
I personally just did it it and it was great guys, hope you like hearing about it
I did it twice today. The second time wasn't as epic, but damn was the one this morning great.
I imagine it's similar to marihuana.
If people find out there's an easy, relaxed life, they don't work so hard, hurting corporate profits.
I think the simpler answer is, you are so right, it barely has to be valorized. It sells itself.
I think the long answer is that porn addiction is a real thing that can affect people. Also lots of people in charge of things like sex education have historically been prudes who see masturbation as some sort of gateway to promiscuity.
Orgasms are normal, healthy and necessary.
Orgasms are normal, healthy and necessary
Yes, yes, no.
While orgasms are normal and can potentially have some physical and mental benefits, there is no physical or mental necessity to have them (plenty of asexual and otherwise celibate people of all different kinds out there to prove it).
I don't agree, in the experience of my friend circle, if you don't release for a while:
People also demonize sodomy, but it's been proven that semen in your colon can help fight depression.
Practice safe sex, kids.
Is that causation or correlation?
Not sure... 🤔
I just remember reading an article about it years ago and even then I was like "Is it the semen, or just the fact they had sex?" lol
Same reason we practice forced male genital mutilation in the United States, religion (abrahamic) says pleasure is bad.
What has circumcision to do with sexual pleasure? Please do explain. I'm circumcised and I have no loss of sensation from not having foreskin. I also don't have a moist area for bacteria to multiply
I also don't have a moist area for bacteria to multiply
If only you could wash yourself.
About the multiplication of bacteria in a moist area, how do you handle that in your mouth ? Surgery or personal hygiene?
Because they are fools, brother. They fear what we could become if we were free to train out techniques to their maximum without societal judgment
Religion is mostly to blame, but I think some of those religious teachings have been integrated into institutions and secular society as well. Notions that self gratification is a treat and not a need, the perception of masturbation that it's some teenage boy temporary phase and not for women or older married men. The idea that it can't be a social activity at all, even though it's free and safer than drugs.
You can die of a heart attack if you overdo it.
You can die of cirrhosis from drinking too much for too long, but it's still culturally held as a stress reliever. You can die from diabetes if you eat too much sugar for too long, but it's still sold to children as edible happiness. Hell, you can die slowly and painfully from taking too much Tylenol, but it's still the world's most popular painkiller by far.
Too much of anything kills eventually. That doesn't bare any significance to whether or not it's good for stress in some amount.
I feel like my dick would fall off first
You can die by drinking too much water, should I stop drinking water?
Only if you're drinking too much.
Couldn't think of a better way to go
Often times it's about control over people. Whether it's religion or capatilism sense it's something you can do yourself for free that gives you pleasure. Capatilism can't force you to pay for enjoying yourself and religion doesn't want you to do things that they don't control
For fuck sakes. Not everything has to do with capitalism. Puritanical belief exists long before capitalism, communism or whatever economic system you want to paint as the boogyman. And it will exist long after.
Yeah I don't think there it some capitalist conspiracy trying to stop people from masturbating. Kellogg is long dead
Easy dopamine isn't a good thing. Dopamine is finite but renewable, so if you run through all your dopamine on easy hits your going to end up having motivational issues.
And if your constantly chasing short term Dopamine hits your brain is going to adjust to seek behavours that give instant gratification over somthing that's just as rewarding, more productive for your personal or professional life, but takes longer to get that dopamine.
By all means deal with your libido in anyway that doesn't hurt the people around you, but maybe retiring the wankers cramp for a bit might do you good once in a while.
if you run through all your dopamine on easy hits your going to end up having motivational
That sounds very scientific, do you have some sources like peer reviewed and reproducable studies from credible universities?
I was going mostly off how I've delt with addictive behavours in my life and how casualised therapists like Healthy Gamer explain how dopamine works.
It's also worth noting that this user also posted about lacking motivation to even play video games at this point, which if they're using masterbation as an easy dopamine crutch it could explain where there motivation to do anything else is going.
But yeah, I didn't prepare academic level citations for my lemmy post I made during a lull at work.
This is simply wrong. Laughably wrong.
It's more valorized than you think. There are places on the internet that are very social and masturbatory. Check out bateworld. If you're single and are a male looking for a male, be prepared to be disappointed chatting with hetero males that are married that get off on jerking off with other men behind their wives' backs. That's pretty much a major sector of the population on bateworld. I'm kinda gay, but I surmise that the hetero world and marriage makes the sex for the hetero males kind of boring. I can't say why, I'm trying to figure it out. A survey, if you will. Basically, I predict that the end result to my survey will be: men really like their dicks because major dopamine. Men get bored with their wives because whatever reasons I don't know about. Men like their own dicks and somehow society has taught them to like their dicks so much, to the point that they often send dick pics via SMS or Whatsapp. So then they start liking other dicks? Explain to me, the gay man, why hetero men enjoy seeing x-rated pornography where the dick is larger than the hole that it is penetrating. Is it connected to the dopamine? Anyway, bateworld seems to prove that men migrate towards jerking off as a dopamine hit and men in particular are very interested in socializing with other men in need of the dopamine hit, all the while getting off on the taboo against masturbation. Me, being kinda old, I remember the good old days when you went out drinking with high hopes of having your penis touched by another person, if only briefly. 2024 is a new world, in which men are seriously confused about dicks and dopamine.
I think this is a case of "The internet can take the niche 120 people out of the 8 billion on Earth and make them seem like they're normal and everyone is like them". Loud voice, itty bitty percentage of the population. If you go to "car-fuckers.com" you'll leave thinking 4 out of 10 men have sex with their car and that's why shows like Top Gear/Grand Tour are popular lol
Hmm. We’re having trouble finding that site.
Thank goodness.
I think you want to be right, but you should probably prove yourself right by signing up for a bateworld account and see for yourself. You're probably meaning well, being a happily married, hetero male, and don't want to believe that some of the hetero males you wave to as you drive past them, some of your cousins, or even your favorite co-worker with a wife and five kids, are probably on that web site jerking off to it. *edit: also, the web site has been making money for over 20 years. It's always been chock full of married straight males.
Some people are bi+ and just aren't out yet or don't even know exactly what they are. And that's fine. I also believe it's probably a pretty small percentage of the population. Fwiw, you can be in a differing sex relationship and still be somewhat curious about the other side of the coin. I think the worst thing people can do is be ashamed of it, then hide it at all costs where it manifests as this sort of website. Instead of having conversations among friends and spouses and more healthy methods of exploring one's sexuality, such as going to pride events and making diverse, enriching friendships.
some people aren't, and they like the taboo feel. really, don't try to educate me. I know all about it. Try, instead, to be less blah. We're not talking about "some people" we're talking about men who are really into their penises. Your public service announcement, while making me yawn, also makes me think that you're really not paying attention to what I'm talking about at all! These people I'm talking about are not gay, or questioning, or curious, or obsessed over their sexual orientations. They're heterosexual. Heterosexual men enjoy their own penises. Your "intervention" is kind of stupid and uncalled for here. I'll gladly talk to you about gay rights or whatever, but this is not the place. Biologically, I'm explaining, being a man and having a penis, you basically have an easy target to get some dopamine. We are formed this way. More women might like to chime in on this conversation. Are they getting easy dopamine hits off their clits? Were they raised to do this by their parents? No. Women are still subjected to shaming for sexual pleasure. Men, on the other hand, are encouraged to be aware of their pleasure organs. I really wish I could delete your bullshit comment. It has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
Because stroking the bratwurst can be addictive and lead to destructive behaviours.
Maybe sure. We all do like bratwurst. We're not talking about bratwurst luckily.
Neurotypicals look down on easy dopamine hits.
I think people believe that onani leads to looking at p0rn, which is inherently exploitative to those involved (men and women) and a foul industry. Likewise, it can produce exaggerated sexual fantasies that are unhealthy and can create predatory relationships.
It's hard to imagine jerking without explicit content, and once you have gone from Swimsuit edition to Softcore, it's hard to go back... From softcore to hardcore, it's hard to go back... From niche hardcore to regular, boring hardcore... It's hard to go back...
And it leads to becoming a person who does this frequently... And then, what if you want a family? Do you really want to be taht guy who is looking at crazy stuff and rubbing one out while your infant daughter is sleeping 30 feet away in her room? Do you want to be the guy whose wife is out of action from giving birth and you are like "Oh, OK, I will just look at explicit hardcore content and content myself..."
It's a bad habit.
It also creates crazy expectations of others which may even lead to so desiring some novel experience that you have an affair or "open" your marriage.
I get strong "youth pastor" vibes from you.
You got any (peer-reviewed) sources for these claims?
I bet he's a priest
Onani sounds like a manga one would fap to.
Yeah I believe there's this weird story about how like... Onani/onanism entered the vocabulary through the Old Testament character and then the notoriously private Japanese adopted the foreign word "onani" to refer to masturb8tion and so it just sticks in my head a bit more and comes out when I feel the need to slightly self-censor in consideration of being on the work net (it's not an English speaking IT team but, you know how it goes, don't be the shortest hanging fruit).
Wow what a weak take lol.
Literally good for you, eh?
Masturbate right before gym, then go train. Note how your performance was. Especially if its a squat or a deadlift day.
Note down what time you went to sleep, when you woke up, and every meal you ate (all calories, including macros).
Now refrain from masturbation from that day until the next session you have of the same exercise, make sure you go to sleep within the same time the night before, wake the same time the day of training, and eat the same exact meals, go train the same exact exercise, same sets, reps, and weight. Note your performance.
yeah yeah down vote me.
This is pretty incel-ish. Here’s an article linking several studies which contradict your anecdotal suggestions. But you keep not fucking, I’ll cover for you!
Positive results on a quasi-scientific self-experiment is not a good way to gain knowledge. At best it is how you specifically react to the variables introduced; however, it seems that you only performed this self-experiment on two separate occasions or perhaps only when you planned to go to the gym. Although your attempt to limit confounding variables is commendable, it is not enough to reach a conclusion. To definitely find the truth on the matter, many more participants must be enrolled and the experiment should last for at least three weeks, but hopefully much longer so as to definitely reduce any confounding variables that will influence the results. Some of the better studies regarding physical performance were running for around six months just for this reason.
Specifically regarding your self-experiment, if it was indeed performed as one session vs. one other session, there could be any number of confounding variables that could have effected your performance other then masturbation. Did you keep a sleep journal during the experiment (recording night mood, morning mood, amount of sleep)? Did you consume alcoholic beverages in the seven days leading up to the session? What was your specific workout routine?
In my opinion you should continue this experiment, but record more data for longer amounts of time; say six months of abstention, and six months of regular masturbation. Of course, this produces it's own confounding variables because it could very well be that the result you get has nothing to do with whether or not you masturbated, but rather the gains you made during the first trial period. Which is why to be able to tell people what is truth and what is incorrect, more participants must be recruited to validate the results; otherwise, it will only ever be (again) at best (i.e. confounding variables properly accounted for to the best of your ability), how you specifically react to abstention.
With only a single event, it could be something as boring as what music you listened to during a workout. That can actually have a pretty strong influence, where maturation at best has a small influence, if any. If that weren't the case, the Olympics wouldn't be full of athletes fucking, because releasing their sperm somehow has a negative effect on performance. (If you believe it's only masturbation, not sex, I'm going to need you to consider what mechanism could possibly effect this, because I can't think of any.)
I don't notice much of a difference personally and I have several years of consistent workout logs to go off.
Nobody tells this guy when to cum!
And I mean nobody!
I'm actually curious on this one, I don't have gym equipment or membership, is there something else I can do to compare performance if I were to masturbate vs if I didn't?
It's all old coaches tales. Olympic athletes not only masturbate but actively fuck each other senseless during the Olympics and you don't see any effect on their performance in the slightest. If you are such a wimp that busting a nut makes you lose your breath sooner when jogging, then you have different medical problems. Cardiac atrophy for example. Masturbating barely even burns calories to begin with.
Ignore a rando on the Internet?
You could do bodyweight stuff. Pushups, pullups, squats, core work, etc.
are there any proven negative effects?
Is that actually true? I suspect not.
Most people start "enjoying their own company" years before getting to try for real.
If there was a question of insensitivity, then surely problems would be much more prevalent at ages when people are enjoying themselves more frequently. But it's not the case at all.
I get what they're trying to say, but they also carefully omit very important details. There are a lot of things that can be unbelievably bad for you, but essential in moderation. This is really no different. If you aggressively jerk off 15 times a day, obviously you are completely screwing yourself in multiple ways, but in moderation, it's good for your body
It's also at an age when your libido is essentially unlimited. Were the opportunity to present itself, these people could adequately perform for 15 different partners in a row.
Desensitization takes time. By the time it sets in, most people are past the age of unlimited libido. There are also different forms of sensitivity (and thus, desensitization). OP referred to physical, but mental seems to be a more common issue.
That second one sounds more like an endurance cheat code than anything else
Thinking about it, being circumcised probably reduces sensitivity a lot more than cranking the hog on the regular.
The second one really depends on how you masturbate. Death grip is a bad thing if you want to also get off during sex.
It's also like saying that eating too much makes you not hungry, no shit einstein
if anything i'd posit that cranking the hog makes you more sensitive, because you'll be so used to it that abstaining for a week is almost unbearable, much like how most people in developed countries feel a pit in their stomach if they don't eat for half a day.
Wait until you hear about sugar if you think dopamine hits are bad lol. Also number 2 is just made up.
One major reason is that feminism, which deeply influences culture, posits that all men are rapists in the waiting. For an example here a quote from a prominent and influential feminist.
"Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman."
This chills any frank discussion of male sexuality because that would be implicit endorsement of sexual assault.
Ah yes, feminism, an ideology that consists solely of extremist views. I'm not even well versed in feminism and I know that Andrea Dworkin is quite extreme and is a polarizing figure.
If you have reduced feminism to the views of a single extremist than you really need to get your shit together.
You raise an excellent point that the quote from Andrea Dworkin portrays a rather extreme and controversial view that is not representative of feminism as a whole. In fact, many prominent feminists have strongly disagreed with Dworkin's perspective.
For example, Laura Tanenbaum, a respected feminist writer, has bluntly called Dworkin's views "shit." (1) Wendy McElroy, in her book XXX: A Woman's Right to Pornography, also presents a feminist case against Dworkin's anti-porn stance (2). As the esteemed feminist scholar Dr. Dale Spender has eloquently put it, "Feminism['s battles] have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions, for safety in the streets, for child care, for social welfare, for rape crisis centres, women's refuges, reforms in the law." (3)
This demonstrates that feminism is a broad movement focused on expanding women's rights and opportunities - not demonizing male sexuality. In fact, as Amartya Sen compellingly argues in Development as Freedom, the expansion of women's capabilities is essential for the betterment of all people. When women have more voice, choice and agency, it leads to progress in areas like health, education, and poverty reduction that benefit entire communities.
So while Dworkin's quote may get attention for its shock value, I would encourage looking to the many other feminist thinkers who take a more nuanced, constructive and less male-antagonistic approach (5). Feminism is not about vilifying men and male sexuality, but rather about advancing gender equality in a way that uplifts everyone. There is room for an open, healthy dialogue about sexuality within a framework of mutual understanding and respect between women and men.
(1) Laura Tanenbaum, "The Appeal and Limits of Andrea Dworkin," Jacobin, August 5, 2019, https://jacobin.com/2019/08/andrea-dworkin-last-days-at-hot-slit-review.
(2) McElroy, Wendy. XXX: A Woman's Right to Pornography. New York: St. Martin's Press, 1995.
(3) Cleal, Olivia. "Australian ‘Feminist’s Feminist’ Dr Dale Spender AM Dies Age 80." Women's Agenda, November 27, 2023. https://womensagenda.com.au/latest/australian-feminists-feminist-dr-dale-spender-am-dies-age-80/.
(4) Sen, Amartya. Development as Freedom. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1999.
You do know that feminism promotes female masturbation, as well as male masturbation, right? As part of sexual liberation from religious patriarchal oppression. You know, the thing for which women were accused of being witches and burned at the stakes. The thing that it was only appropriate if a doctor did it for them.
did you know that women masturbate as well lol
Also this is insanely incel
Christianity and Feminism.
Most of the different waves of feminisms are actually quite vocal about masturbation being a positive thing regardless of gender.
Feminists infamously had a moral panic about pornography in the 1970's as adult theaters and the nascent home video porno market started to take off.
They predicted porn would condition men to expect sex on demand and sexual assault rates would skyrocket when in fact the opposite happened.
You see this same moral panic from feminists regarding AI girlfriends and you there's a rising fundamentalist strain of feminism that still says porn is dangerous.
How many anti-masturbation feminists do you know personally?
Here's an example of a prominant influential feminist calling all men rapists.
"Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman."