It sure does
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I'm totally fine, on paper, with actual centrists. It's just that they actually seem to actually exist in the real world. Everyone claiming to be one is really just a right-wing conservative who's afraid to say so.
I’m totally fine, on paper, with actual centrists
I'd like to know what I'm in the center of. Because if it's a Nuremberg Rally, maybe that's not where I want to be.
There is a middle ground between the unregulated facists capitalism of today and the anarchy or authoritarian socialism of tankies.
That middle ground means that capitalism is allowed but is regulated. Minimum wage is a living wage, slave or child labor products are not allowed on the market. We do have social services including healthcare and UBI. However, there is no middle ground on perceiving much less treating anyone as lesser. Nazis and supremacist groups and systems are stamped out like the filth they are.
middle ground between the unregulated facists capitalism of today and the anarchy or authoritarian socialism
Sure. You can enjoy the moderate centrism of the LAPD, the United Fruit Company, and Focus on the Family.
Nazis and supremacist groups and systems are stamped out like the filth they are.
No they aren't. They're in the highest eschalons of authority.
Bud, I'm talking about what a middle ground centrist would want. It's certainly not the past or current US government. It's a lot lefter than is even available as choices besides maybe Bernie and the Squad. It just isn't as left as tankies dream of.
Please read literally any socialist theory. Or at least any criticism of the Nordic model from the left.
And understand that "middle ground" arguments are fallacious and something being the middle ground does not make it the better or correct option.
Edit: Why Social Democracy Isn't Good Enough - Second Thought
I usually don't listen to videos but since you're respectful so far I did listen to this one. We agree with the current reality of the system. I think what is neglected is that additional regulation (laws and constitutional amendments) are the only nonviolent way for a society to change. Enough good regulation results in first social democracy then moving closer to socialism. The major requirement is for companies/ceos/shareholders to be prevented from having the poison pill influence that they do under even Nordic social democracy. Sufficient taxation above a given limit is a relatively simple way of preventing the wealth hoarding that lets a person or company have that influence and preventing acquisitions and mergers that prevent diversification of economies.
I just don't see the class/general consciousness necessary for "true" socialism to succeed being present in our lifetime. I can see social democracy as possible because of Bernie, AOC, and renewed working class solidarity.
That middle ground means that capitalism is allowed but is regulated
Lmfao, here's a clue - capitalism IS regulated, and it's still decaying in to fascism, because that's what capitalism does.
Which is the perfect example of how centrism enables fascism - because you prioritise capitalism and its status quo along with the privileges they grant you, over the lives of the people it oppresses, marginalises, and literally kills to exist.
You are part of the problem, no matter how much faux logic you use to try and maintain your own cognitive dissonance.
Capitalism will always try and prioritize profit over all else. Effective regulation(again that doesn't currently exist same as your tankie utopia) would enforce protections and itself be protected from capitalist interference. The problem for either of us is that greed exists, some people will always want more. No governmental change will remove them from society, unless you want to debate what scale of greed is allowable before a summary execution. I'd say allowing their existence within a limited framework that protects the rest of us without murder is better.
You are still talking about what is in this debate rather than what could be. An ideology of black and white absolutism inherently makes a "purity test" hierarchy. It's why you're already attacking me as part of the problem instead of any attempt to change my perspective. Same issue happened at both the first and second international because Marx and his followers didn't believe in antiwar general strikes. At least we agree on something much more left than we have.
Any system devolves to some form of shit of allowed.
There’s no lasting compromise with capitalism. Capitalism inherently depends on and leads to a concentration of wealth and power.
Capitalists can and do use that wealth and power to pervert the political system to their advantage, eventually chipping away at those regulations and social services. We saw this happen with the erosion of the gains from the New Deal and Union power over the late 20th century in the US and even in Europe we’ve been seeing austerity and far right parties start to take power and try to do the same.
Political freedom and equality is intrinsically tied to economic freedom and equality. We can’t really build a better society while there are still people with the means and motive to pull us back into servitude.
For real. We just need laws for people instead of corporations. Not an upheaval of society. I want to go to work and the supermarket and on a walk, not live in rags in tunnels hiding from robot spider things
You might want to learn what centrism actually is. Hint: it's not a political position unto itself.
It doesn't help that it seems the vast majority of people think that "centrism" is a political position unto itself, defined by being on the fence about everything and never committing to any stance on any issue.
As opposed to the actual definition, which is just someone whose collective of political positions is such that it's not really accurate to refer to them as either kind of -winger.
It's kind of like the bisexuality of politics. Actually, as I write that, a lot of biphobia, which comes from both the homo and hetero, is kind of rooted in the same bullshit 'logic'. Just like the majority mentioned above see centrists the way I described, biphobes see bisexuals as indiscriminate sluts who are willing to bed anyone and everyone, as opposed to simply someone who is capable of being attracted to members of either sex.
If someone is "left-leaning" or "right-leaning", that is an actual centrist, by definition. Otherwise, it wouldn't be merely a 'lean'.
centrists are close to the status quo common sense view.
the status quo is soon-to-be-mask-off-fascist neoliberal capitalism. which is very much right wing. which makes them (inadvertently or not) right wing.
they are even if they dont understand politics at all so they dont even know exactly what they believe in as long as their support ends up going to them.
you can be slightly left from right, that doesnt fundamentally change.
Problem is accepting the reality would mean they have to confront the fact that they're on the wrong side of it, so they will do everything in their capabilities not to.
Lmmfao, GTFOH, centrist aren't "oppressed" so you can fuck off with trying to compare them and their shitty choices in life to actual marginalised people who are actually oppressed for how they were fucking born
I like how you quoted a word that literally appears nowhere in my comment, lmao.
Also, learn how analogies work, goofball. You did the equivalent of reacting to me saying
eating breakfast and getting dressed are both things you do in the morning
with
Lmmfao, GTFOH, clothes aren't 'food' so you can fuck off with trying to compare them"
which ties neatly into why they want "freedom" so much.
they want the freedom to be openly fascist.
Hi that's me. Left leaning moderate. I disagree with a bunch of the crap on the left but I really don't like a lot of what the right pulls either.
I will say that people on the left tend to violently push me away when we disagree on something where as the right tends to go "yeah I disagree with you, but you can hang out here if you want". So it's really easy to see why so many people have been pulled to the right over the last 10+ years. I've witnessed it first hand when I started doing it myself. I was staring down the far right pipeline and I turned around to go back home to the left but they didn't want me anymore because I had dared to even look the other direction for awhile.
I've seen it happen to friends and family as well. I still talk to them, but man... I wish the left would stop shoving people out when they could be allies.
people on the left tend to violently push me away when we disagree on something where as the right tends to go “yeah I disagree with you, but you can hang out here if you want”.
:-/
Conservative: I have been censored for my conservative views
Me: Holy shit! You were censored for wanting lower taxes?
Con: LOL no...no not those views
Me: So....deregulation?
Con: Haha no not those views either
Me: Which views, exactly?
Con: Oh, you know the ones
Cool fake conversation, lol.
Though I can say from experience, you will get abundant flak on Lemmy for even suggesting that maybe the US government has a bigger problem with poorly spending the taxes it already receives, than with not raising enough tax revenue.
My guy, put down the Ayn Rand and come up for air.
Keeping up the streak of making random shit up about people, I see, lol.
If it's the "online" left then I think it's the "online" part that's mostly the problem. People tend to be serious assholes when the interaction is distant and you're just an "other." Left, right, or center, too many people are comfortable with being insufferable cunts with no respect online. :(
Or maybe people are just sick of coddling fascism enablers and giving them the benefit of the doubt when they just keep proving over and over that they don't deserve it.. ¯(ツ)_/¯
I am deeply interested in immediately exemplifying exactly the sort of behavior you just described
The constant purity testing on the left is real. As well as relentless and obnoxious. It seems like that side is the undisputed champion of making perfect the enemy of good.
I've been told I made people in a left-wing friend's group chat feel, and I quote, "unsafe" when I casually suggested being careful not to overfocus on self-labeling oneself, that it's important to remember you're an individual who's more than a laundry list of categories.
Unsafe? Really? lol
Constantly infighting. I swear the Democrats do more damage to themselves than the Republicans could ever hope to achieve. It's actually nuts.