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I'm kinda confused by these statements. Was there any real expectation that people would willingly hand over the land they committed genocide for to the victims because we told them so? Would Mexican or Black Americans also need to give back any land?
IMO, the white people in this meme give the correct response. That is exactly what you would have to do to get any land or sovereignty back lol.
Most recolonization projects are geared towards land determination being returned to indigenous groups, an example of this type of determination being violated is the long history of pipelines being brought through or near Native land within this century, as well as mineral/oil rights being fucked over as well and thereby financial proceeds drawn away that would support the community (there's a reason why so many Tribal lands push for casinos is due to the income and jobs that supports the community and creates a tourist economy that is distinctly different from those commonly seen outside of tribal areas (i.e. shitty jobs, worker exploitation, money going towards some out of state LLC). Still though this is one type of interpretation but none that I've seen so far are in the "drive everyone the fuck away from us" and is instead more towards "hey can we not have settler waste shit placed near us or have our resources taken without our knowledge/consent?". Additionally a lot of land near most contested indigenous grounds has been dismantled into larger big AG projects so if that land was taken back it's mainly being taken and redistributed from corporate collectives i.e. fuck Monsanto etc.
Again.... you think capitalist will give you capital because you asked them for it? I mean, I'm in no way saying not to, and I hope you do. I'm sure you'll get a concession or two. But thinking the state will forgore any sovereignty willingly is idealistic. Please tell me if I'm wrong and it's a common practice somewhere. I've just never heard of it outside of the small reservations given already.
...No? Like my assumption for every aspect of anti colonization efforts is that cpaital must be destroyed or under the boot of a worker dictatorship. I was just explaining on how anti colonialist goals are pretty simply about being free from settler actions directed by empire/capital
Oh okay, sorry for misunderstanding. I saw a lot of people here advocating for this with out the element the establishment of a worker dictatorship. I just think the "white people" in the meme have the correct to response when hearing people say this because they know the level of violence it will take for them to forego any sovereignty. I understand your point is that native people's aren't arguing for a role reversal in the system of oppression that exists now.
Yeah nah, the rights of workers and indigenous people both cannot exist in our current capitalist system and there ain't no "re-configuring it" like neoliberals think can happen (similar to "green capitalism" in attempts to rebrand capital).
When I've had the conversation in the image, it's never had a chance to go anywhere near policy talk. They bring up "But the scary brown people will do a revenge," as soon as you point out that the European colonial project was evil from its inception and remains so
They think morality has something to do with geopolitics, and as soon as you point out the contradiction that "your story's heroes are actually villains" they experience dissonance and try to resolve it by applying their beloved moral symmetry
If that's true, then we should be annihilated balanced against we haven't been annihilated, so that must not be the whole truth. This returns their minds to placidity
If that's true, then we should be annihilated balanced against we haven't been annihilated, so that must not be the whole truth.
that is...some... kind of reasoning you've got there
Just world fallacy is a hell of a drug
When I've had the conversation in the image, it's never had a chance to go anywhere near policy talk.
That's weird because in real life and online, when I've had these conversations, I've tried to immediately ask about policy, but nobody can give me a straight answer.
I just get vague notions like "give the land back" (to who exactly, and how is that decided?) Or allowing indigenous people to have a say in what happens to their land (like, does it become a special autonomous political area in the US? A separate entity all together?)
When I ask these questions, they go to the line from the meme "lol you just think they're gonna genocide you." I don't even live in the US. I'm not JAQing off--I actually want to know, but I have yet to hear one concrete example of what this transition would look like.
Well I'm normally having the conversation with US conservatives in the context of responding to them moralizing against a non-US country or a domestic minority, and I'm normally doing it to get them to shut up and feel weird about it. Those conversations are framed in terms of morality for that reason, so what that looks like is the dissolution of every nation whose legal legitimacy depends on the doctrine of Christian discovery
But I frame those conversations morally because our present is so starkly different from any idea of how things ought to be, except for a liberal one. This makes liberals, including conservatives, easy to disorient for a few minutes by disrupting their feeling that things are more or less as they should be
Since you're actually asking, though, I don't know much about decolonial theory. I'm just a white southern-US baby leftist. The best I can do is point you toward Fanon for an examination of colonialism's structure and phenomena
They bring up "But the scary brown people will do a revenge," as soon as you point out that the European colonial project was evil from its inception and remains so
I would assume they think that giving the land back means they have to get off it and they don't have somewhere else to be
Yeah, a lot of times that's what they mean, though I've also heard more "they will exterminate us" fear-fantasies from chuds than I would have expected. In general, they think that decolonization means getting colonized in the same way they assume that black nationalists are white-nationalists-but-black or that feminists want a matriarchy
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Lmao. The state was the one that committed genocide, so asking it to willingly give up land/stewardship still garners the same response. Idk man, maybe if you beg them enough they'll bless you with their benevolence.
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You have no power to do anything but that friend.
Sure. Have a nice day.
If you do I'd be more than happy to contribute.