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Hmm.. That is the idea of a union to have guarantees on benefits, work and rules. That is called a contract.
In my job a union would make zero sense but for many jobs they make perfect sense for that reason alone. The contract.
My company can change any of the benefits at will. Normally they change them for the better but they can change them at any time with no input from me.
A contract prevents that.
There are no jobs where unions make zero sense.
It's not just about the contract, but also the ability to better negotiate a contract through collective bargaining. Not to mention the general benefit of a community that you know has your back.
Apes together strong
It would make zero sense.
I’m paid a base salary which based on a formula is the same as everyone else’s. I also get commissions. There is zero reason to unionize as I wouldn’t get anything better from the deal.
If I worked in a non-sales job. I’d see a benefit. If I worked as a developer, or support, etc.
Sales is treated extremely well as long as you prform
Whatever you are paid is less than the value you create for the company, and the more privileges you have relative to other workers, the more likely the company is to take them away when it wants to reduce costs.
All of the reasons you have given are not sensible as reasons not to be organized with your coworkers.
Your company does not care about you, but you and other workers can care about each other.
I have the argument I am paid less than the value I create. That sounds like some idiotic communist BS where everyone had nothing and they tried to flee the country in mass.
I will make about 500K this year. Depends on what the economy does over the next three months. I feel that is fair pay for what I do. I have no qualms with my pay, my benefits, the way I am treated, the hours that I work or really anything other than the job is boring. I work maybe twenty hours a week and I wish there was more to do since that would mean more money for myself.
I never claimed the company cared about nor would I even want that. Maybe that is important to you but it isn't important to me. I have friends and family who care about me. work is about producing an income to do the things I want to do in life.
lol one of my product reps was doing just as well as you, and he got the ax is some restructuring with the minimum notice allowed.
He's amazing, and went to work for a competitor basically instantly, but the interruption in cash flow made half a year extremely stressful.
You represent the top 0.5%, but you still aren't immune to life changing events. A union would still benefit you, by increasing the stability of your income.
The interruption of cash flow is a pain but that is why we save. If they laid me off and I couldn't find work. I have enough savings to last me at least 60 years. I don't see myself living to 110.
I have the argument I am paid less than the value I create.
All businesses exist for the purpose of generating profit for their owners.
Without workers providing labor to a business, the business could not operate. All value generated from the operation of a company is generated by the labor of workers.
Profit is the value generated by the labor of workers minus the wages paid to them.
If the wages paid to workers were not less than the value generated by their labor, then the business could not generate a profit.
The reasoning is so simple that a child could understand it, and you could understand it too, if you were not so pigheadedly anchored to your narrative about "idiotic communist BS" and "everyone had nothing".
I have friends and family who care about me. work is about producing an income to do the things I want to do in life.
Unless your friends and family would be willing to pay you as much as your income from your job, you profoundly misapprehended the meaning of my comments.
The very instant conditions change such that your labor is no longer profitable for a company, you lose.
The reasoning is so simple that a child could understand it, and you could understand it too, if you were not so pigheadedly anchored to your narrative about “idiotic communist BS” and “everyone had nothing”.
The reasoning is idiotic.
A business owner takes a risk. They supply the capital to run the company. I sell my labor for what I consider a fair price. I take no risk. If the company does not produce a profit, I am still paid. If the company does not produce a profit, the owner loses his whole investment and possibly his home.
The whole the value of your labor is just some weird communist motto that isn't well thought out.
A business owner takes a risk. They supply the capital to run the company.
the owner loses his whole investment and possibly his home.
Business owners don't "supply" capital. Business owners own capital.
Anyone who has access to capital is far less vulnerable generally than workers, who have no capital.
Workers live under continuous precarity.
What is the net worth of the owner of your company? What is the motive for being a business owner? Do you really think you are less likely to become homeless than him or her?
The whole the "business owners take all risk" is just some tired neoliberal apologia that is intended to mislead.
They supply the capital. That is why they are the owner.
WOrkers have capital. Who do you think money, car, homes, etc are?!?!? I am a worker and I have a fair amount of capital saved up.
The company I work for is about 28 billion. My share is about 1 million. The company I own is worth about 28 million. I started with the capital from my day job and grew it and in the beginning, I was taking on a lot of risk.
The owner/shareholders are the ones who take all the risk. The worker has zero risk. If times get bad, they can go get another job. The company I work at could go bankrupt tomorrow and I would be fine.
That's not capital, that's just things. Capital is material wealth that gives you bargaining power on a larger scale. You don't have that bargaining power just because you "own" a car or a house. In most cases, the bank essentially owns those things, and lease them to you for the interest rate it charges.
The worker has zero risk. If times get bad, they can go get another job.
If you think that's true, you haven't been paying attention to the job market at all.
The company I work at could go bankrupt tomorrow and I would be fine.
And ninety-nine times out of a hundred, the shareholders and owners will be fine as well. They'll have insurance, or backup plans. Or they'll foist all the debt onto the workers. The only time they'd truly feel it, is if they'd make monumentally stupid financial decisions.
That is what capital is. You may not like the definition but it is how the word is used. I own my three homes. I still have mortgages but I can use them as capital to start a business.
I am very aware of the job market. I have several positions pursuing me heavily now. The job market is always good for those with skills in demand.
Now sure you understand a BK. The shareholders lose all their money. Insurance doesn't cover that. I am not sure you understand how money works well because you don't understand capital and you don't realize the average American is a shareholder. What do you think a 401k is? It is buying stock, bonds, etc which would make you a shareholder.
Owning is not supplying. Owning is holding. Supplying is transferring possession to another party. When you hold ownership of a business, you maintain control of the business, as it operates, and you collect profit from its operation. You never deplete the supply of the business you own as a natural consequence of its operation.
Capital is assets that have productive value, such as businesses or rented properties. Cars and homes that are used by their owners are not capital, and neither is cash deposited in a bank. Most capital is owned by a very small cohort of society.
Business owners own capital. Workers own essentially none.
You have very deep confusion about extremely basic concepts, a condition that is not being helped by your snarkiness and hostility
I can see you have no business experience. You're just trying to make up terms that do not meet the definitions in the real world.
Capital is money, care, etc are capital. So is cash.
I am not being snarky or hostile, I am enjoying your limited knowledge of a topic where you think you are right but are wrong.
I am not confused about the topic at all. I am using real words and not some made up vocabulary. As you will see personal savings is right there on the list.
The main purpose of a union is not simply to hold the company to terms it had agreed.
Unions are the vehicle for workers to negotiate.
Having a contract is not a meaningful reason not to be organized.
Hmm… That is the idea of a union to have guarantees on benefits, work and rules. That is called a contract.
That's a very simplistic view on what a union does.
If I were to lose my job tomorrow, I'd only get a portion of my income after taxes covered by public income insurance. The union covers up to the rest, meaning I won't have any noticeable loss of income for I believe six months, at which point it goes down to 80% of my income prior to my unemployment.
I also don't have to bother negotiating my salary with my employer, unless I personally chose to do so. And should my employer for whatever reason decide to sacrifice me to cover up for some blunder, then the union will deal support me through it, offer legal advice, and even representation.
That's still not everything a union does.
My thoughts exactly! A good contract has all of those things in writing. Shitty contracts do exist however so perhaps that's their angle there.
sounds like they are trying to confuse people on what a contract does do.
My dad was a UAW for most of his life. While i said my job doesn't make sense to unionize, an autoworker needs to be in a union. They have a lot of time where they're not paid while the factory is shutdown. I have to say they way they can the company shows why the companies have issues.
They would work OT like crazy and build lots of cars then have so many cars they would have to furlough the plant for two months. Just stupid shit like that.