Amazon Anti Union propaganda

Legit had someone from my last job start going on a break room tirade about how "those damn unions just want your money" but strangely had no rebuttal when asked why giving them 2% of your paycheck is a bad thing when they negotiated your RAISE to be 15% and your health benefits add up to an additional savings of around 20%.
I'm SO SORRY you're getting extra money and healthcare rather than the NOTHING you had before.
Nowadays I like to print up cards with unionizing information on them, facts vs myths, links to read up more, anti-union tactics, links to join unions, links to find HELP setting up a union, and basically anything I could cram into a business card. Now I leave about 10 of them any time I go into a non union store.
Given how previous management has reacted to "someone" leaving these in the break room, I'm sure I've caused a few sleepless nights.
- For union dues, I'll sometimes bring up strikes. People know that when unions strike, they aren't working, and when they aren't working, they aren't getting paid. What they don't realize is that most unions pay the employees during strikes, and that money has to come from somewhere.
  
  You're literally partially making sure you still get PAID when shit happens.
  Very good point, and I honestly wonder how common that knowledge even is.
  Then again, almost all anti-union propaganda hinges on people not knowing enough about the subject to call it out. As with most propaganda.
  
  I honestly did not know that. I’ve been wondering how, for example, UAW workers can afford to strike for weeks.
  
  I know this might not apply elsewhere as I'm in Australia, but I always bring up that your union fees are totally tax deductible so you get it all back at tax time.
- It’s the same people that don’t get socialised healthcare. Union fees are like a tax that’s used to pay people to do work for you, in the case of worker unions, people that negotiate working conditions, benefits, and wages, in addition to lawyers that can both offer legal advice and representation should you be in need of it.
  Here in Sweden we have lots of different unions. We have a tenants union that negotiate rent increases, ensure that landlords do their end of the contract, and will help you with legal proceedings should it be required.
  There are also various “customer owned” institutions, like my bank, insurance company, and the grocery store I get most of my groceries from. The goal isn’t necessarily massive profits, but enough to sustain and develop the services, with surplus going back to the owners, that is the customers.
  It just makes sense. We all make use of schools as children, so funding that with taxes makes sense. It ensures everyone gets a good education, and at least one good meal per day. Same thing applies to healthcare.
  
  My mother WORKS IN HEALTHCARE as the intermediary for the hospital network and the insurance companies.
  She literally sees the Financials of people every fucking day.
  And still she thinks socialized Healthcare would tank the entire US. I've shown charts, studies, anecdotal evidence out the wazoo (which is where anecdotal evidence usually comes from) But no, I can't possibly be right about this, it would mean someone who got stabbed will have to wait on 600 people with the sniffles to be seen by a doctor in 6 months. Because I guess in socialized medicine, triage doesn't exist? You can't logic someone out of a position they didn't logic themselves into.
- I will gladly pay a union.
  Always worth it. Workers unite! ✊️
- And if the US educational system continues the way its going then you all are going to get more people who turn their noses up at unions because they lack the intellectual capacity to release that the short term loss in revenue will lead to long term benefits.
  
  I've had to explain how tax brackets work to my parents multiple times. And my mother was a math substitute teacher for over a decade before quitting because educational work isn't worth the bullshit for little pay.
  I will always vote for increased education budgets.
  
  Pretty sure it's been in that territory for a dozen years or two already. 😞
- Can you provide a link to the cards so we can print them too?
  
  When I get home, I'll work on making a normal printable version!
  I have a few hobby machines that do special things, so I have it scattered into a few files to make it go from one machine to the next.
  
  Hoping that you find them.
- Did your union negotiate you a 15% raise?
  
  Did my union I joined when I got the job get me 15% more than the others already working there?
  No.
  Did I immediately get a little over 15% compared to similar job listing's in the area, AND more than 18% more than my previous job?
  Yes.
- I found the best comment on lemmy

My union dues last pay? 30 dollars. My union just got the government of Ontario, the shitbag conservatives, who tried to illegally withhold raises from us, and won. My union guarantees I get a set wage because they bargain for it.
- My wife's union costs her $8 a paycheck.
  It also gave her 9 more PTO days, better healthcare, and negotiated to triple any outside-of-work calls because the company used to do a thing where they would send you home, and then call you back later. Wtf.

Hasn't Amazon been caught deducting pay arbitrarily from delivery drivers?
In fact, given a lot of them seem to be able to be terminated at a moment's notice, so no guarantees of pay there either. And work rules? What?
Oh and talking to someone paid by the company about your grievances Vs someone independent seems like a worse alternative than the final bubble.
Man, these guys really suck at propaganda
- They suck at propaganda because the claims are unverifiable lies? That's not really the point of propaganda. Did it scare a number of employees into voting no on a union? If yes, then they propaganda'd just fine.
- I'm so glad Amazon guarantees I'm going to be cucked on wages and job security.
  said no worker ever.
- I'm not sure how you can spin to be convincing through your arguments... It's a pretty indefensible position intellectually
  This is actually part of a pretty valid strategy. The trick is to flood them with the conclusion - they don't need to be able to recite talking points, they just need to think "a union could be troublesome". I'd also spread stories about Union busting (not with a paper trail!) And have dozens of these posters with different, unmemorable arguments
  If you convince someone "unions are bad because they have problems with corruption", they can be sat down, shown the numbers, the transparency measures, and how members could democratically boot out leadership if things go wrong. Their concern is dispelled, and if they accept the argument they're solidly on team union and distrustful of management.
  If you flood them with weak arguments that make sense on the surface but fall apart if you think about them, they're left with the impression of an argument against unions. They aren't going to remember it, and if they do it'll sound like it couldn't be right to say it out loud, but they felt that way. And they're smart, so they must have been convinced by a better argument they just can't remember clearly.
  This is what subliminal messaging actually looks like, this shit is evil

The amount paid for dues is greatly exceeded by the benefits of having a union.
You ARE guaranteed pay, benefits, and rules because you have a contract with the employer that covers those things.
Are these morons suggesting that the union will take over for management?
- Are these morons suggesting that the union will take over for management?
  That'd be a great reason to unionize
  
  IWW has entered the chat
- No the usual 'argument' that references is that it you have a complaint or preference or comment or whatever about your work or job duties, you have to bring it to your union rep, rather than talk directly with your employers management. Somehow that's supposed to be an argument against unions.
- Are these morons suggesting that the union will take over for management?
  Some unions make disciplinary processes and who can be terminated under what conditions part of the contract. In the worst cases this creates a scenario where bad workers are functionally impossible to fire and the people there actually trying to get their work done have to deal with it, because the bad apple hasn't been written up for identical violations on at least 3 different dates in the last 90 days, then been provided with explicit written directions of how not to do what they've been doing in a meeting with management and the union rep, then given another month before reevaluating if they've corrected the issue, then suspending them if they haven't, then doing the whole process over again before being allowed to fire them. Passing the improvement plan evaluation resets the whole thing. Presuming what they're doing isn't an immediate risk of injury or death, that is (that has an expedited process).

Boss: kids your age are so incredibly arrogant. You think you deserve the world.
Me: we are the same age.
Boss: huh
This actually happened.
- People really out here thinking that if you're a supervisor you just get like 20 years older lmao

Is union life for you?
It depends. Probably yes, unless your employer pulls shit like this, in which case you should have joined yesterday
- Yup, if your employer is so dedicated to making sure you don't join a union that they make posters about it, then you definitely need to join a union.

No guarantees on pay, benefits, or work rules
Uuuhhhhhhh, isn't that the current state and literally what unions are for? Setting guarantees for all that shit?
- Yeah, the whole point is having a legally binding contract that sets wages, hours, and working conditions. Also the "going through your union instead of your manager" is super dumb. It's like saying, "why talk to your lawyer when you can just confess to the police?"
- No guarantee as in "theoretically, we could fold up our entire business instead of bothering to negotiate". They won't, of course, but it's not liably false (IANAL) because there's a valid weird hypothetical.
  
  Not a hypothetical: Hostess folded, as did Yellow trucking. Unions can't save a business from bad business decisions or destructive market forces.
  But businesses fold all the time, union or no union. When business is good, unions make sure the employees get a fair piece of that.

They make union dues seem like a big deal, but not unionizing will cost you even more. A union will pay for itself when they negotiate a raise.
You have much fewer guarantees on pay, benefits, and work rules without a union on your side. Amazon can, and does, change policies at will. A union keeps them in check.
Bringing complaints directly to your supervisor or manager will solve nothing, and in the process, it will get you on their shit list. Sometimes, anonymity is priceless.
- You have much fewer guarantees on pay, benefits, and work rules without a union on your side.
  I disagree. Without a union, I CAN GUARANTEE you're getting screwed.
  
  Costco.
  It's not all companies that are trash. It's just most.
- My union dues are tax deductible too where I live
- I'm very pro union. But not all unions are good. My father's union is so bad he might actually be losing money. They just roll over for management to fuck them, barely negotiate anything at all. Last time, they 'negotiated' an increase in pay, and the increase was actually SMALLER than the increase in union dues.
  Oh, and they only defend the worst of the worst. Litteral thief, stealing, caught on camera, multiple times ? Well defend you tooth and nails. 'Til the management litterally had to get police involved for them to back down.
  Unions in general are good. But for some specific unions, ymmv.
  
  100% agree. Some of my “favorites” are police unions, when they go to bat for obvious criminals. You or I would go to jail under the same circumstances, but those assholes don’t even get a reprimand, and still have authority over others.
  
  Not all anything is good. That's not how real life works. There's only statistics. And statistically speaking, unions are the better choice.
  
  Oh, and they only defend the worst of the worst.
  Naw, more likely people only hear about the most dramatic examples. The every-day, my boss is picking on me stuff rarely gets much attention and is generally resolved quietly.  
  Litteral thief, stealing, caught on camera, multiple times ? Well defend you tooth and nails. 'Til the management litterally had to get police involved for them to back down.
  The severity of the accusation shouldn't disqualify someone from their union defending them. Also, for a criminal matter, why didn't they go the police to begin with?
  
  That's because too many union members treat their union like a service being provided to them instead of something they're providing for themselves. A union is what the members make it, and if people aren't participating then yeah, it will probably suck.
  
  Costco is (afaik) not unionized, though the company is union friendly (there may be unionized stores?). They are publicly traded. And workers are paid better than a living wage and have a bunch of benefits.
  The company chooses to do this despite their shareholder responsibility, and I will never shut up about it.
  Once you're getting a fair shake, if the company establishes trust, you can get rid of the union. And the company can save the money they spend trying to ruin your lives on something else instead. Not all companies are trash.
  But most are.
  It's absolutely vital for governments to promote workers' ability to unionize and provide employees with rights to protect them from corporate greed.
- My area of work doesn't have unions.
  That last paragraph is absolutely true. I've experienced it first hand.
  
  make it have unions
- I pay around £15 per month in membership fees at my Union. But if it weren't for them, I'd have lost my house when the energy companies hiked their prices, end everyone else did the same to compensate.
  Was it garaunteed that they'd win these negotiations? No.
  Would I have been better off begging to my managers? Fuck no.

The fact that they have it on this blatant of a propaganda poster means that unions work.
And going through union for what you need is much more effective and quicker than letting a supervisor/manager drag their feet and kick the ball around, and that's what makes union dues worth it.
- That's because the manager is incentivized to not help you, while the union is incentivized to help you.
  Unions are game-theoretically necessary.
  
  If employers have organizations advocating for them, it only makes sense for employees to have the same
- The fact that they have it on this blatant of a propaganda poster means that unions work.
  Not necessarily.
  A poster this blatant means unions are bad for management.
  It doesn't prove that unions aren't bad for both workers and management alike. Business isn't a zero sum game. To show that something helps workers, you need to demonstrate that it helps workers.
  Which is to say, this poster is a bad argument for unions. The success of the writers strike, on the other hand, is a good argument of how unions protect workers from the bad deals management offers.

"Dues deducted from paycheck" and "typically must go through union instead of your supervisor or manager" are true. At the same time, they're minor inconveniences compared to what a bad employer does to you.
- As I said in another comment, my dues are automatically paid through my PTO account which in turn is paid into by my employer. So yeah, it's still my money, but it's not coming out of my paycheck at all and I honestly don't even notice it.
  At least in my area, most of your big trade unions have this as an option for members through the IBEW credit union.
- It’s not always necessary to ‘go through the union’ instead of speaking with your manager. For pay, conditions and other disputes, yes, you’d want the collective bargaining of a union to get the best deal. For other things, it’s not always necessary.
  I had a fall at work a couple of years ago. I fractured my ankle and was away from work until it healed and I could work again. When I returned, the problem area that lead to my fall hadn’t been looked at. I raised it with management myself and they dealt with my concerns and rectified the issue. I informed my health and safety union rep of what I was doing and he agreed to take it up if necessary. It wasn’t.
  The company I work for has a long history of working with unions. They obviously have their motivations to improve efficiency and profitability but generally aren’t arseholes about it. The toxic culture I see in other companies only comes about when bosses can get away with murder because employees aren’t able to stand together.
- I personally prefer going through the union instead of my supervisor. Less stressful for me.

Typically must go through union instead of your supervisor or manager
Major plus in my book.
- Very major, especially because it goes both ways. Hey Manager, if you got a problem with me take it up with my union rep.

"Get informed"
Bold of you to tell people to do something that dangerous, Amazon.
- Obviously that image is of a manager, you can tell by its over confident and under qualified stance.
- Also what's the point of getting informed if the last step is saying no? xD

I’m from France where unions are kinda everywhere and workers rights well protected : what the hell is this ? Is it real ?
- Can't say if this particular one is real but this definitely tracks in the USA. I've worked for companies that have mandatory meetings where anti union consultants will play out this kind of propaganda in real time.
- It’s real. Welcome to America! We rebrand the idea of slavery every 100 years or so to great success!
- In Spain it’s mandatory to have unions for companies with at least 10 employees.
- Dunno if this image specifically is real, but anti-union stuff is common in the US.
  I worked this one job where a couple of the employees tried to unionize. It had gotten far enough where there was going to be a vote.
  Well the company sent this snake woman around that personally gave almost everyone one on one talks to convince them that unions are bad and they should vote "no" on unionizing.
  For some reason none of my coworkers took even a second to wonder why the company was so hell bent on getting everyone to vote "no" that they set up one on one personal meetings with some random anti-union lady.
  Yeah, enough people voted "no" that we didn't get to unionize...
  The one other thing I will say that was a bit baffling was that at a prior job I was working minimum wage and it had a union where I had to pay union dues. Wtf was the union doing where I was making less than minimum wage?? Not much apparently.
- Fellow French - wait until you realize their unions only apply to one company and not a whole industry so they can't actually do anything on a large scale. This broke me.

Wait so..having to go through your supervisor and manager is listed as a plus?????? america or not, aint noone likes going through that, usually

The "effective due" is probably even negative because the extra money they'll fight for will be more than the due.
- Same with
  No guarantees on pay, benefits or work rules.
  This is also technically true - except your union is going to collectively bargain a binding contract which gets you all those things, and prevents you from being exploited or the employer from randomly changing rules to exploit you.
  
  You have no guarantees on pay, benefits or work rules without unions either. The company can change those at any time or never change them at all.
  At least a union will fight for those things on your behalf. A company has no incentive to do so and will actively oppose such things if it hurts their bottom line even slightly.
- My dues are automatically paid out of my PTO account and are basically an hour's worth of wages per month.
  I don't even notice it.

There's no guarantee you will get more money! Get the same money or less guaranteed instead!

go through union instead of your supervisor or manager
So they’re threatening workers with a good time? Interesting strategy.

Always love it when the people in charge know something is bad for THEM but good for US and they just throw a tasteful graphic spouting some bullshit on a page to change minds. They did this in Columbus about Issue 1 like a month ago, saying how upping the Majority Vote to 60% for state bills was just a good thing, even though it was just to prepare for issue 1 in November to repeal backwards ass Abortion Laws. It was obvious too since it was like all the pamphlet talked about

Why sleep in cotton sheets on a spring mattress for $1 in dues when we can offer this manure-soaked bed of straw for only $5 in wage theft?
- Exactly how soaked?
  
  This much

The union dues from my last pay period was $32.
My pay and benefits were hard fought for and won by my union, including back pay through arbitration when we got stiffed on pay for a particular part of our job for a few years.
When I have a problem, I go to my supervisor. Usually things get fixed. If they don't want to fix it, I go to my union rep and things usually get fixed fast. If they don't, I go to my union grievance officer and things definitely get fixed fast. The last thing my supervisor wants to do is deal with the union rep, let alone the grievance officer, so having those 2 backing me up goes a VERY LONG WAY over just dealing with my supervisor by myself.
Don't believe the propaganda from people with a vested interest against your rights as an employee...
- 100 percent true. Going to the union is the last thing I want any of my people to do. It just complicates things.
  Fortunately, I and my fellow supervisors are all union members too and we all know and are on good terms with the union officers down at the hall, so even if someone does go straight to them, it's usually worked out with a phone call. The key is to be fair and not be a dick.

If you want to join a union: https://join-a-union.github.io/

Very Infuriating.
- Absolutely nothing mild about this.

I sharpened the QR code. It reads:
http://www.unpackjfk8.com
Very surprised they didn't put ?campaign=qr, /qr or other such crap in it to measure its effectiveness as opposed to the printed URL.
(Saved you a click: domain is on sale, not used after 2022. Archive)
- Someone should hijack the QR code by strategically filling in back squares with a sharpie and have it point to a pro union URL
  
  That's just barely possible:
  Be ready to register a domain that's off by 1 character. Generate a list of such domains from http://www.0npackjfk8.com/ to http://www.unpackjfkz.com.
  Use an advanced, preferrably command-line QR generator that not only allows changing the size (version) or error correction mode but also the mask pattern. Match these parameters to the original code.
  Verify that the generator and settings work correctly by regenerating the original code.
  Check that when you change a character, only 1 byte in the content part (right of the QR code) and the error correction changes.
  Generate QR codes with varying domain names. Increase error correction as much as possible as long as it doesn't change the layout of where each character is.
  Using ImageMagick, overlay each newly generated QR code with the original using the min / max function (depending if the colors are inverted).
  Put each result into a QR scanner. Only a handful of the circa 380 codes will scan, about half of which to the original and the other half to the edited URL. Of the latter half, manually check which is the easiest to scan.
  If none work well enough, repeat the process but with 2 changed characters per domain.
  Why go through the trouble instead of printing a sticker?

🖕

Wait... are they saying that I could have sent my employees to the Union instead of endless discussions about next year's pto distribution? Could you not have said that sooner?!

Should be illegal. Vote for pro union protections people!
- People love to vote against themselves. At my last Union BBQ we had the local, anti Union conservative politician show up to shake hands. I saw so many of my union brothers taking photos with him, since like half of them are conservative voters.
  Why the fuck a union worker would vote for anti Union, pro corporation conservatives, I don't know. But they do.
  
  Perhaps for other issues?

Disgusting.
- I don't understand why everyone at corporate Amazon is fine with this. I am a white collar corporate sell out asshole and I support unions 100% of the time, full stop.

Given how big a shitshow Amazon is, both in fulfillment and corporate, I'm shocked that they weren't the first tech company to fully unionise.
Well, I say that knowing that there are lots of people that are extremely anti-union, even those that have suffered due to RTO/RTT, or Amazon's infamous PIP culture.
And I say this knowing that Amazon workers could happily form a union with 250k workers, and Amazon would happily fire them without a thought, even if it actively harmed them.

https://www.levernews.com/amazon-gets-huge-contract-despite-bidens-union-pledge/
FYI
- AWS and Amazon are pretty separate as far as how they treat their employees.
  AWS likely got the contract because not many cloud service providers are FedRAMP certified.
  
  The contract the article is referring to JWCC which was a multi award contract. All of the vendors will essentially compete for the workloads under that contract throughout the entire contract.
  It was created to replace JEDI which was single award and got so bogged down in legal challenges they gave up and replaced it with JWCC.
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JointEnterpriseDefenseInfrastructure
  AWS also has or had the only top secret classification cloud.

Dues deduct from your paycheck
So does every other subscription "service.", but we don't talk about the vileness of a Netflix subscription do we?
No guarantees on pay, benefits, or work rules
This is just a lie. I cannot find another angle to it.
Even without a union, there is no guarantees on pay, benefits, or work rules. So the point is moot. It's like saying "Anything is possible" and walking away like you said something sagely.
Typically must go through union instead of your supervisor or manager
Most people wouldn't understand why this matters unless you've been apart of a job where your manager has defended you against your supervisors. Very few people have had this happen, but the idea is that you will have people that DEFEND YOU from your supervisors getting power hungry.
It's not even like your supervisor can't bring accusations against you, it just means that complaints would have to have merit.
- Should I subscribe to Amazon Prime?
  Fees deduct from your paycheck
  Delivery not always any faster
  You see fewer ads but we spy on you anyway
  
  No guarantees of the words “One-Day Shipping” having any relation to reality

Amazon on their way to get dogpiled in the media again.

In a world were people will gladly vote to put in position of power the same guy that trampled on them, it is not that surprising that people will root for the company that is drying them out to discard them faster.
Sadly.

dues were paying a couple lawyers to make sure company followed the law and own rules. mgmt is usually jealous of union pay. except upper mgmt(profit sharing) typically union will give better advice in any disputes.

Surprised this brazenly says to vote no. Usually telling people how to vote is the line they dance around with all the negative "facts"

This is not mildly infuriating, this is extremely infuriating

I easily can imagine someone facing a wall and pissing in a bottle while looking at this poster.

Typical Amazon... I hope American workers are smarter than this and don't fall for it.

Lol how to convince someone exactly the opposite of what you want

All big company are the same i worked for wal-mart canada for way too long and the simple rumors of the word Union in a manager ears would bring paper like this on the breakroom table and sometimes even a little video on why union are the reason of everything evil in the world even the end of dinosaurs.

Wait wait, you PAY your unions in the US??? I thought I already heard all
- Yes. Union staff needs to make a living too. It's also how we pay members when we strike.
  My union is also in Canada. How do you do it in your country?
  
  In Spain, union staff is company staff. They get paid by the company. There are some rules about how much staff time a union gets depending on company size. If I remember properly it was about 1 full time employee per every 80 workers.
  For striking, in Spain people just take the cut of that day or, depending on the sector, there are arrangements where workers strike and company still pays the same. Usually transport workers.

This makes me want to re-watch the based as fuck Deep Space Nine episode (Bar Association) where Quark's bar staff go on strike.

Amazon anti-union cope

I tried checking the link but it didn’t work- anyone know why?

Amazon can pay/fund for the NFL because it only exists because of this one guy, maybe that’s where everyone plans to spend money from gambling winnings because there isn’t that many or enough websites meaning Amazon has to exist to make it easier, or because no one else supported sports betting or any gambling.

I mean, it's not many companies that don't try to put up a fight against this. I don't think this is anything particularly unusual. Why is this infuriating? Would you expect them to not do this? That would be /mildlyshocking
- "Hey guys... Let's just shut up and get back to work, right... doesn't that sounds lit?"

There are some serious issues with unions. For instance sometimes workers are tricked into signing papers that allow the union to have control over the worker. I'm not condoning Amazon but to say Unions aren't always great.
As always you should make up your own mind
- Fuck off Jeff
- What kind of fucked up unions do you have there? Unions are there to help the worker by negotiating better pay, vacation days, etc. It's like your local political representative that actually does things you want and gives you money when you're on strike.
- That's a lie