I don't know why you think the US would send it's military to Ukraine for peacful reasons, and not to kill as many Russians as is necessary for the Russians to leave.
I don't know why you think the US sending troops to help a sovereign nation protect itself from an invader is not benevolent.
And that still doesn't answer my question. You are stating facts. I'm not arguing that. What I'm simply asking is if this is worth the US getting into a hot war with Russia using nukes over? It very literally would bring WW3 and nuclear Armageddon. That is the plain and simple fact when the US commits troops to this quagmire. Are you personally prepared to die in a nuclear explosion in the name of protecting Ukraine's sovereignty?
But by all means, keep deflecting with irrelevant facts. It's the sort of thing someone does when they have nothing intelligent to say
No I do not. And it's why I don't want the US provoking that exchange by engaging their own military in a war with Russia in some attempt to protect Ukraine's sovereignty
Yes. Do you think it's worth leaving 44 million people to be conquered by a fascist, genocidal regime because you're scared some limp-dick dictator might follow through on his threats that have proven to be empty over and over again?
So you are personally prepared to die over a few regions in Ukraine that want to be Russian? Do your friends and family know you'd like them to die or suffer a nuclear apocalypse so some insignificant corner of the world can finally be free from Russia, Ukraine, and Modern Civilization?
Sounds like you didn't pay attention to 20th century history so here's the cliff items:
Nuclear war = very bad. No winners. Most die. Civilization collapses. Mad max ensues
If defending Ukraine from Russia will lead to nuclear warfare then failure to defend Ukraine will lead defending the US, which will lead to nuclear warfare. Putin has demonstrated that nothing will ever be enough for him. Remember when we tried letting him have what he wanted? That's how we ended up here.
failure to defend Ukraine will lead defending the US, which will lead to nuclear warfare
What? That makes zero sense. You do realize that when the US, a nuclear power, enters troops into the Ukrainian conflict backing Ukraine, Russia, another nuclear power, will directly declare war on the us and that war will very quickly escalate into a nuclear exchange.
I think you're trying to say in some deranged way that if the us does nothing Russia will somehow decide to keep going (even though it's proven they are having difficulty in Ukraine) and pick up more countries until they get to the us and decide to nuke it?
You seem to think this is exactly like WW2 and Hitler but only superficially. Like you heard the WW2 talking points and distilled them into perfectly fitting here. Which yes, one country invading another is a similarity. However it's a similarity with almost literally every conflict in the world.
Screw Russia. They’re pathethic and getting a taste of their own medicine.
So will you if a nuclear war is triggered. Do you really think protecting Ukraine's sovereignty is worth burning down the world in an exchange of nuclear weapons?
You made the mistake of misunderstanding that, then I clarified and you're here AGAIN making the same mistake. Completely on purpose. -- I've made it clear in multiple posts that I live in Brazil, I've made no effort to hide that, I mention Brazil often and how you Americans should take a cue from us since we've actually made our Trump ineligible and we'll send him to prison soon.
But sadly we are strongly affected by all the mistakes you idiots do.
If China sent 3k troops to Cuba I wouldn't care. 83k would be alarming because a sudden change from 0 presence to a demographic group would make me worry China was invading Cuba.
83k is a lot more than 3k. But you knew what when you started arguing in bad faith.
The only people upset about this are those that want Putin to win.
A guy walks into my house and stabs my wife. He starts eating the food out of my refrigerator. I don't call the police, because I wouldn't want to provoke him.
Thanks for reducing the complexity of international politics to something I'd expect from a late night TV bizarre true crime documentary. You've certainly elevated the debate!
US sends troops to other country saying that they're doing it for good and benevolent reasons -> a decade later we find out that they did war crimes there
You say that but if China established some "mutual contracts" with Cuba or Canada and started placing thousands of troops there and even moving nukes near the US, you guys would start an all out war.
There were protests, undeniable. Initially there were peaceful protests from people who had reservations about Deng's policies, that the CPC openly engaged with. Li Peng met with these protestors in April. However, the CIA saw the opportunity to forment an uprising and so pushed several student "leaders" into more aggressive actions. "Leaders" who expressed motivations such as wanting China to be controlled by the West.
Even western sources at the time, including ones such as the NYT and Reuters, said that there wasn't much happening. In the Square itself, there were no casulities. In the entirety of Beijing there were casulties among the PLA, police, and protestors alike. PLA soldiers were unarmed until they were attacked by protestors.
In the square itself the tank (which was leaving the square, not entering) stopped for the infamous tank man, who then...walked away unharmed. Do you think that would happen in many other countries? Considering we see US police charging full speed through protestors, I certainly don't.
Your are poorly mistaken. There are plenty of gorey pictures and videos of lots of dead and dying protesters in Tiennemen Square from that day. Thousands were killed according to many witnesses.
Out of curiosity, are you referring to that black and white photo of the "bodies" that gets passed around a lot? The one that is actually just a bunch of bicycles?
If you need an eyewitness account from a non-Chinese source, by all means: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/89BEIJING18828_a.html
Some beatings, which obviously criticism could be levied at, by otherwise unarmed riot police, but not much more than that.
There definitely was violence on both sides, even the official counts put the casulties around 200 last I checked. Which were sadly probably preventable had the PLA been equipped with nonlethal control measures rather than...nothing.
I do credit your link as it surprisingly shows the violence both ways, a lot of modern sources like to paint it as being very one-sided. One thing I did notice even in the Esquire article you linked, they explicitly never mention Tiananmen in any of the pictures showing violence. Because, like in the account I linked, there was no violence in Tiananmen Square. Now if you said "Hey, there were outbreaks of violence around Beijing on June 4th" yes, that would be true. Even the CPC official accounts don't deny that.
Yes it was the dirty dirty CIA who FORCED those protesters to speak their minds! Don't you see how glorious, innocent China had no choice but to murder all those savage protestors?????
Like I said, from april to the beginning of june, initial protests were fairly peaceful and the CPC engaged with them, PLA on site had no weapons initially. Which is definitely an area they messed up, as they may have been able to further limit casulties if they could have responded faster.
The fact that CIA had embedded agents in the protestors and collaborated with the mafia is not exactly a secret, Operation Yellowbird is fairly well known, and that is basically their MO to begin with.