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The IDF's solution to bank robbers holding people hostage would be to blow up the bank
When that mass shooter was in Uvalde they should have droned the school.
Better analogy would be the killer in uvalde using a kid as a human shield while also shooting into the other classrooms trying to kill other kids.
Do you shoot back or do you sit around like the cops did and wait till the killer gets bored, runs out of ammo, or runs out of victims.
Just look up how many thousands of rockets and mortars Hamas has launched at seemingly random targets in Israel since October 7th.
Better analogy would be the killer in uvalde using a kid as a human shield while also shooting into the other classrooms trying to kill other kids.
Sure, and then you bomb the school to kill them all. Also bomb all the surrounding buildings just in case.
The movie Blazing Saddles has a scene where the protagonists threatens himself as hostage. It worked. Movie Clip Not Censored https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTNJUjsNKVk&t=153s
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Look, we all know that if Israel wanted to kill two million people in Gaza, no one in the world could stop them. Not saying it's okay that even 0.5% have been killed because that is still a horrifying number. But the idea that they are indiscriminately blowing up every single building is just theatre of the absurd.
Looking at the demographics of the casualties, what suggests the IDF is targeting Hamas in any meaningful way? They're pretty squarely in line with the Palestinian population broadly - that certainly suggests the killing is indiscriminate to me.
That’s probably only because they want to move in, so they can’t wreck the place too bad.
The arrogance is amazing.
That tiny country could be destroyed by a brisk wind and two battles with bad luck.
The “rockets” you’re referencing aren’t the threat you’re trying to invoke. How many Israelis have been killed by Hamas rockets ever much less since October 7th? Maybe if Israel didn’t have a concentration camp outside of their city walls they wouldn't have to worry about the threat of retribution?
Better analogy is the Uvalde shooter also starved and killed kids in the school for generations. Then some of the starving children started throwing sharpened pencils.
The “rockets” you’re referencing aren’t the threat you’re trying to invoke.
So the rockets that killed
500100+ people at al-Ahli hospital aren't that big of a threat?https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/10/26/gaza-hospital-blast-evidence-israel-hamas/
Do go on...
Answer the question. How many Israeli’s have died since October 7th from rocket attacks? Making unsubstantiated claims to show how dangerous the rockets are isn’t evidence of anything.
The claims are substantiated. See the link in my response.
The weapon was a misfired Hamas rocket.
The 100+ victims were Palestinians who were at the hospital (parking lot I believe?)
Those same rockets are being fired into Israel (Nearly or over) 10,000 since the conflict began.
Hamas isn't trying to tickle Israelis with those rockets. See the effect one of those rockets has when they hit a populated area.
If you want to be taken seriously answer the question. Why is that so hard?
Because the goalpost is "the rockets aren't a threat".
The same Hamas rocket misfiring and striking in Gaza can kill over a hundred people (500 people when they thought it was an IDF bomb).
10,000 rockets with that potential for death and destruction have been fired into Israel by Hamas.
The reason a Hamas rocket kills more in Gaza than it does in Israel is that Israel has bomb shelters for its civilians whereas in Gaza Hamas has made it clear that the tunnels and shelters are for Hamas.
Your new goalpost seems to be "Israelis are good at seeking shelter and avoiding Hamas rockets, therefore the rockets aren't a threat."
You just brought up unsubstantiated claims and then bring up the Gaza "misfire" that basically only the US and Israel say was a misfire.
Perhaps though those are unsubstantiated isreali claims as well. And more than 10000 bombs have been dropped on civilian targets by Israel from the 7th to the 1st that Israel are winning to admit to.
Gaza is not allowed bomb shelters. The ones under al shifa that isrealis built were sealed specifically so they couldn't be used as bomb shelters.
I don't think that's what they're saying.
Unsubstantiated claims
From the link I provided
Fighters in Gaza launched a barrage of rockets toward Israel and in the direction of al-Ahli Hospital 44 seconds before an explosion there that killed at least 100 people, according to a visual analysis by The Washington Post.
Video obtained from Israeli television channel Keshet 12 News allowed The Post to geolocate the origin of the barrage to a point southwest of the hospital in Gaza City, matching the rough location the Israeli military has alleged was the launch site of a misfired rocket that it said landed on the hospital grounds. Experts said rockets from that barrage would have been able to reach the hospital in time for the explosion.
Also
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061
We contacted 20 think tanks, universities and companies with weapons expertise. Nine of them are yet to respond, five would not comment, but we spoke to experts at the remaining six.
We asked whether the available evidence - including the size of the explosion and the sounds heard beforehand - could be used to determine the cause of the hospital blast.
So far, the findings are inconclusive. Three experts we spoke to say it is not consistent with what you would expect from a typical Israeli air strike with a large munition.
J Andres Gannon, an assistant professor at Vanderbilt University, in the US, says the ground explosions appeared to be small, meaning that the heat generated from the impact may have been caused by leftover rocket fuel rather than an explosion from a warhead.
Justin Bronk, senior research fellow at the UK-based Royal United Services Institute, agrees. While it is difficult to be sure at such an early stage, he says, the evidence looks like the explosion was caused by a failed rocket section hitting the car park and causing a fuel and propellant fire.
Mr Gannon says it is not possible to determine whether the projectile struck its intended target from the footage he has seen. He adds that the flashes in the sky likely indicate the projectile was a rocket with an engine that overheated and stopped working.
US President Joe Biden voiced support for the Israeli position, telling reporters that "data" from the US Defense Department backed his assertion that Palestinian militants, not Israel, were to blame.
"While we continue to collect information, our current assessment, based on analysis of overhead imagery, intercepts and open source information, is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday," National Security Council spokeswoman Adrienne Watson said on social media.
One of the photographers on the ground is Mohamed Saber, who distributed through the EFE agency one of the first images of the crater caused by the projectile that hit the Al Ahli parking lot. The hole, shallow and approximately three feet in diameter, forms an impact cone that goes from northeast to southwest. According to several experts, including U.S. military advisor Marc Garlasco, an expert in the investigation of war crimes, what hit the floor of the parking lot did not come from an airstrike. “Even the smallest JDAM [guided missile] causes a 3m [10-foot] crater,” Garlasco tweeted.
The United Kingdom echoes this conclusion, reports Rafa de Miguel: “On the basis of the deep knowledge and analysis of our intelligence and our weapons experts,” British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak told the House of Commons on Monday, “the British government judges that the explosion was likely caused by a missile, or part of one, that was launched from within Gaza towards Israel.”
The French investigations coincide with London and Washington. As reported by Agence France-Presse, the analysis carried out in Paris was even able to quantify the explosive charge that impacted the hospital at around five kilograms.
And even more to read here by following the references on the Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ahli_Arab_Hospital_explosion#Rocket_vs_airstrike
You’re lying now just to avoid answering the question. The first person who replied to you said that the rockets were not the threat you were making them out to be. Get over being wrong and stop defending war crimes.
I'm not defending
HamasIslamic Jihad killing over a hundred Palestinians at Al-Ahli hospital.Are you?
Are you arguing the rockets are just fireworks? Just shot to provide a happy little light show and not intended to cause any death or destruction? All 10,000?
Would you be just as chill if one of those rockets were shot at your neighborhood? But don't worry! You'll get a 30 second warning to start running towards the nearest bomb shelter! You like running and getting your daily adrenalin pump, right?
Just look up how many hundreds of thousands of Palestinians Israel has killed in the last 30 years. Israel is the bad guy here, it's not debatable.
the bad guy
Why does there have to be a singular "the" bad guy?
And why the need to lump a huge group together to lay that blame?
The Israeli government and Hamas both share the blame for all of this, among others.
As is too common in the world, while a relatively small group deserves the blame, many more, on both sides, suffer the consequences.
Because one side is attempting genocide. That makes them the bad guy, regardless of whatever they claim Hamas did to them. Claiming Hamas is as bad as the Israeli government is the same as claiming the Jews were equally at fault with the Nazis.
Hamas's goal is explicitly to genocide Israel. They just don't have the resources.
Where have they ever claimed to want to genocide Israeli people? That’s just a lie Zionist use to justify their own atrocities. It has no basis in fact.
I don't have a subscription but this article claims to cover both charters of Hamas in that respect.
Are you aware that Hamas's charter has the explicit objective of the complete eradication of the Israeli state? The PLO is also not very different in this aspect. So where do you get this "one side is attempting genocide" talking point from?
Yeah, groups tend to want an end to the group genociding them. I get it from the actual facts, such as the 10 to 1 discrepancy in palestinian deaths vs Israeli.
That’s such a disingenuous comparison. The end of the Israeli state means an end to the apartheid system upon which the state is built. It does not mean the genocide of Israeli civilians. Claiming otherwise is just propaganda meant to justify Israel’s own campaign of ethnic cleansing.
Wait a minute. You think Hamas's charter is about the end of the Israeli statehood ad in the country? They are explicitly talking about unaliving every Jew in existence. Holy shit. You haven't read anything have you?
They are explicitly talking about unaliving every Jew in existence.
If that’s the case and not just a blatant lie, I’m sure you wouldn’t mind quoting where in their charter they explicitly say that.
Not the person you replied to, but:
https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm
'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble)
Also some fun sections
'[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)
'Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle [against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act.' (Article 32)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter#Text_of_the_1988_charter
I like that we have to hold your hand and walk you through every step of the way for you to even concede an inch. But holy hell you get to screech nonsense left and right like it's gospel. It's clear you have a limited understanding of who Hamas or the PLO are. Don't worry, I'll follow up with the receipts even though I know you'll shift the goalposts again.
No but you see, if you’re homeless and the authorities tell you to take shelter in my house, and then you start killing my family members to try and take over the house… if I defend my house… I’m the bad guy bc you where homeless before.
Just look up how many thousands of rockets and mortars Hamas has launched at seemingly random targets in Israel since October 7th.
Now, if only both parties would just cease firing for a moment. Has anyone thought of that? And if: has any governmet refused to offer/accept such ceasing of firing? /s
If you think you can get Hamas, an organization who states goal is to kill every Israeli, to agree to an abide by a cease fire, go for it. Their current track record speaks volumes to the contrary
Yeah, it's a better idea give Hamas new recluits /s
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Good job dehumanizing "the enemy". That way, you can legitimize any war crime. If you think that Hamas is such a non-human entity, why are the hostages not already considered dead?
an organization who states goal is to kill every Israeli
[Citation needed]
To be clear: I'm definetly not rooting for the authoritarian regime of Hamas. Their leaders should drown in the blood they spilled.
*not
Oopsie. Thank you
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If that were the case, Gaza would be a flat parking lot right now.
Have you seen photos of Gaza?
Yup, I have.
Ok cool so you are retracting your comment then sounds good.
Large swaths of it kind of are
So you think that had the US military known about the 9/11 planes 5 minutes earlier they should have still just let them hit the WTS?
Shit you're right, I forgot that banks and hospitals are exactly the same as a plane headed towards a building
...uh... weren't you the one who made the terrorists = bank robbers metaphor?
Bank robbers aren't going to murder thousands if they pull off the heist. Blowing up the 9/11 planes would've saved a lot of people, indiscriminately killing hostages to get at the robbers is just evil. Israel is doing the latter, and I can't think of any way that killing Palestinian civilians is a remotely justifiable or effective way of saving Israelis or anyone else
So you are criticizing your OWN metaphor?
Or you're suggesting that Hamas are not terrorists? Or are you one of those weird denialists who think there were not 1200 Israelis killed in the Oct 7 attacks?
I'm so confused.
Hamas has continued indiscriminately firing thousands of rockets, displacing hundreds of thousands of Israelis who fear for their lives, and has promised to repeat the attacks if left to their devices. So it's a terror group that has killed, they are killing, and they will kill again.
I agree bank robbers is a bad metaphor, but it's YOUR metaphor.
And fuck those "displaced" settlers lmao, don't steal someone's house if you don't want rockets launched at it. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes
I assume this comment relates to the people displaced during the war of 1948. A war which was started by the arabs living in Israel as a way to oppose the u.n. decision of a two state solution (first but not last time this happens). Those displaced settlers?
So the war was started by people living in palestine who didn't want their country to be handed over to zionists who would drive them out of their homes. Sounds cool and entirely justified to me
Are under the conception that Jews are new to what you refer as palastine? Do you know where the name palastine originates from? Could you do a search for the palastine flag prior to 1948 and tell us what you found? Could you search for any "palastinian" artifact that was dug up in archeolgical digs? Because you can very easily find such jewish artifacts from over 2000 years BCE.
You seem to confuse easy, let me explain. I wasn't the one bringing up 9/11 in the first place, that was never part of my metaphor. It was a dumb and irrelevant thing of the other person to bring up for reasons I've already explained. I was saying the IDF would kill hostages rather than trying to defuse a hostage situation without killing everyone, as has happened countless times. Was that simple enough for you or do you need the 3rd grade version?