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2004 2008 2012 2016 2020 2024election is the most important election of our lives. Democracy is at stake and we need to hold our noses and vote for the lesser evil.If [current challenger or incumbent] gets elected you'll never vote again.
Isn’t it a bit different when one candidate/party has outright said they plan to take steps to end democracy, and has previously participated in an attempted coup?
I don't think either of those things is unprecedented.
Pretending like our elections are currently normal as usual is absurd, we literally had a coup attempt for the 2020 election.
Yes, the 2024 election has democracy on the ballot and it isn't even a controversial statement to say so.
There was literally a coup in the 2000 election. This isn’t a new phenomenon. For how many decades will we have to vote for the “lesser evil”?
also American elections are rigged anyway. Neither group of politicians really bothers campaigning outside their base they just both compete to rig the election so their base's votes count more
About as long as it takes for you and your priv ilk to finally get that this is serious and stop having to be dragged kicking and screaming to the polling stations.
2000 - Gore decides to concede during a close recount
2020 - The big lie, an attack on our Capitol, fake elector plot, phone call to Georgia pressuring it to flip, dominion lawsuit, and more.
They do not compare, simple as that.
The 2000 election was decided by the Supreme Court all posthumous investigations have given the edge to gore but the court doesn’t care about facts. A coup doesn’t have to be violent or flashy to work.
I'm aware of what happened in 2000, don't get me wrong. But my point is recent events have been far more egregious, dangerous and unprecedented.
Trying to compare the 2 is uninformed at best, bad faith at worst.
Wow, fuck you very much. Trump's FAILED coup is more dangerous and egregious that Bush's SUCCESSFUL coup? Trump's complete lack of power is more dangerous than Bush redestroying the middle east on false pretences of chemical and nuclear weapons, mobilising terrorist attacks and organisations worldwide?
The only excuse for such a pathetically stupid statement is that you're a little baby who wasn't around for any of the last 2 decades and are just making things up based on vibes. "wah wah wah, I can't remember bush so nothing must have happened". You are an embarrassment. Delete your account and jump in the ocean.
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I am sincerely convinced that Trump is far smarter than Bush as well
Idk I think Bush is definitely smarter seeing as he never suffered any consequences and Trump has been charged with crimes.
As our friend Parenti says:
Are our leaders stupid? Or are we stupid for not seeing how successful they really are at getting what they want?
Patriot act and everything else under Bush vs Trump getting some new hogs in Mara Lago
no I've seen bush talk he is stupid. Bush didn't get in trouble because he has manners. The establishment doesn't hate Trump for who he is he's an old money rich guy maing tax cuts and hating immigrants ffs he is the establishment. Trump gets in trouble because he has no filter and says things which make the American establishment look like a bunch of assholes in front of their society friends and in Europe
He is the most American president they've ever had and he's just embarassing
Say what you will, but that's stupid to me.
He has the bag and then suffers consequences for apparently no gain besides saying what hogs want to hear whereas Bush also cut taxes, literally stole 2 elections, and lied the US into trillion dollar wars with no consequence and is seen as a painter now who makes Masterclasses
I like to imagine you’re @Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net but you slip into this alt when it’s time to drop knowledge on em
I wish
Your metrics are just vibe-based then.
2000 was absolutely more of a coup than Jan 6th by almost every functional metric. Your main criticism of Jan 6th and Trump are based more on civility than actual policy. Nothing about Trump was uniquely terrible for a Republican president policy wise, he just said the quiet part out loud.
also that coup was a joke they didn't even do anything
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Lmao liberals will tell you we narrowly escaped the MAGA Reich because some incompetent losers broke a few windows and smeared human shit on the walls
Tell that to someone in Iraq
Thanks for another example of why voting for dema is a waste of time because they don't even give a shit and will loose while claiming the moral high ground given the first possible opportunity.
How many more of these stinking, double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote FOR something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?
-Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72
There's an even older one
Arendt is one to fucking talk since she supported segregation in America
And she fucked with a literal Nazi, Heidegger.
Screw her.
I guess she embodies her own quote quite well
Haha, indeed!
not a single election in U.S. history has EVER had "democracy on the ballot." We don't have a fucking democracy. When's the last time anyone has picked a candidate? Year after year, everyone I talk to irl and online despises both candidates. Try to tell someone making minimum wage to go wait in line at the polls to vote, missing those work hours would be literally detrimental. Even if all of those things were disregarded, the popular vote has been fucking ignored in several elections for a convoluted system that was founded by fucking slave owners. even if donald shart "removed democracy" what would change? because Trump's policy is slightly worse than joe brandons? both of them will uphold the status quo, fund the zionist settler colony, lock up latinx immigrants in concentration camps, build a border wall, prolong the proxy war, expand the military industrial complex, continue a fierce grip on the imperial periphery, i could fucking go on. the dems had a presidency and a majority in Congress when roe was overturned and what did they do to try and stop it? NOTHING. no matter who wins, democracy will never be at stake because THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY. so try and tell me democracy is on the ballot again. fucking do it.
even if donald shart "removed democracy" what would change?
Nothing really, the real reason why most liberals hate Trump is because he doesn't hide the fact that the USA is not a real democracy and is a fascistic state. Usually the democrats try to hide it better than the republicans, so their voters can sleep well without thinking about all the people the US kills outside and inside their country.
Not sure why the lol, I totally agree with this. US democracy has flaws that should be addressed, big ones being gerrymandering, electoral college (which will eventually go away due to NPVIC), and our judicial system.
Recent events have highlighted on a national stage weaknesses that must be fixed. Let's get to work instead of throwing in the towel and allowing fascism to rise.
Oh jeez it's almost like the fuckers who want to end democracy don't go away after losing at democracy one time.