which linux phone is the most promising?
which linux phone is the most promising?
I want to donate to a linux phone. I believe in linux and I want a linux phone. Maybe we can use one in very few years as a normal daily driver. It's getting closer and closer every month.
I want to donate that we get there sooner. But which project? I'm following postmarket but I'm not sure if they are the most promising. What's your stance on this? To which project would you give your money to accellerate it?
Edit: I don't want to buy a phone. I want to support the phone os devs. Sorry for the bad wording.
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Tbh GrapheneOS.
Android is Linux.
And unlike desktop Linux it was able to spread secure and private standards
- every app is sandboxed, not some opt-in like Flatpak
- apps start with no permissions (or at least very little), everything is opt-in
- it is like 99% unbreaking, immutable, it just always works while my desktop Linux broke all the time
- there is a webview, which can be hardened. Not Electron, which is insecure and bloated
- energy saving etc work like a charm. 1% battery loss over an entire night!
- hardware security with trusted element is decades ahead of desktop Linux (Ubuntu is just now getting TPM encryption support)
- it is a unified platform, with tons of apps, many of them essential (as the platform is so secure), like 2FA, Banking, public services etc. you can have a full FOSS phone though
I am sure excited for other operating systems but they are just toys. GrapheneOS does amazing work that is a 100% alternative today, for real phones with normal prices, good performance and outstanding security.
When i think of Android i don't think of it as part of the gnu/linux ecosystem, but a heavily modified linux kernel turned against the user.
How is it turned against the user? Androids Linux is highly restricted in that it doesnt support a lot of things, but that makes it extremely stable, while this doesnt mean that apps are also "stable" like in Debian
They don't expect users to do development on android.
(Phones should be used like telephones lol.) I'm going to buy a landline phone
No a phone is an end device. But I dont think GPL or whatever says you need to be able to modify the code on that device.
Makes no sense.
Btw as I only said this in another comment, afaik android runs a tailored LTS linux kernel. It is not as bloated as regular linux as it contains device drivers and also doesnt need all the random drivers for whatever hardware to run on a specific phone.
So you can say android restricts freedom in exchange for security, but "linux kernel turned against the user" makes no sense. Their kernel is just fine.
Their kernel is just fine.
It is just fine, yeah. The things that restrict what the user can do is the interfaces.
@scratchandgame @Pantherina i only have an issue when they dont upstream any of the functionality they add... buuuutttt... a lot of the progress linux has made in recent years has been upstreamed evil corporation(tm) code so... i dunno... mixed blessing
???
Being pixel only makes me cry
Me too man, me too
Android is Linux.
It runs Linux but it isn't a "Linux phone" in the sense used here.
Yes I know but the Term is simply incorrect. I dont have a better one though.
And even though I am excited to use some Linux Distro on a phone I own, it will be way worse in stability, security and crucial app support than Android / GrapheneOS.
I dont have a better one though.
I just say non-Android Linux systems. GNU/Linux if I'm talking about that type of system, but there are some like postmarketOS that are strictly not in that group (it's based on Alpine)
the Term is simply incorrect
LOL
Is this seriously your takeaway from a well-thought out post? This the smugness of reddit that I really don't miss.
edit: I am refering to the root comment, as that isn't clear.
I had hopes we could rise above reddit brain, but you can't take the reddit out of the redditor so easily.
a well-thought out post
LOL
how are you only getting 1% battery drain overnight? my pixel 7 w grapheneos drains 10% overnight and battery saver makes it worse somehow
I would like to know your secrets
6a is good. The 7 is said to be bad.
I have a 6a, which I tolerate for GrapheneOS. The battery life is absolutely terrible.
For me its 2 days when I use it rarely.
The 6 series was when google introduced the tensor which is where the stereotype for worse battery life, worse performance, and less efficient radio come from.
I have a 6a too and for the price it's fine, and I think a lot of the battery concerns are overblown, and for a budget phone competing with other budget phone devices tensor was great. That said the things that would make the tensor in the 7 bad are as present in if not more so in the 6a.
I dont know. I had a 7pro and that thing got hot and was like a tablet. I 100% cannot reproduce this on a 6a. Its battery life is better than my 4a and before my Nokia 7plus.
6a, the one with a hackable fingerprint sensor, is good... this is the level of security GrapheneOS people enjoy. Rather have a debloated $50 BLU phone. These people know zilch about security and instead are just interested in inventing gospel to circlejerk their stock Android hobby.
These people know zilch about security
Agreed, now your mission is OpenBSD
Let's watch if your shit got cared, you can only attacks small projects with peoples who don't want to write portable code (amd64 and aarch64 only) for "security"
you can only attacks small projects
I do not do that. Pretty sure most said in your thread that you write weird stuff, and I also tried talking to you to no avail.
Your OpenBSD fandom sounds like TempleOS meme. Weird. Pass.
I do not do that. Pretty sure most said in your thread that you write weird stuff, and I also tried talking to you to no avail.
You are doing that. You dispose contributions like hardened_malloc. Why don't you spread more misinformation about it? Maybe when hardened_malloc have a bug you will.
You can only laugh on some security bugs of Pixel. You thought "debloat" is enough. This is insufficient. (And using adb to debloat can be considered overkill. Your software recommendation is insane and overkill. Being both insufficient and overkill are the current infamous attitude of current privacy communities, including privacy guides, privsec.dev, grapheneos community and other "degoogled" android communities)
Your OpenBSD fandom sounds like TempleOS meme. Weird. Pass.
???
On GrapheneOS right now typing this, love it! I switched over about 2 years ago to Graphene and never looked back. Rarely have any issues, solid battery life, all my apps work, life is good and private.
What phone are you getting 1% over night on with Graphene?
I'm getting less than 1% battery loss over night. But I have the unihertz tank and it has a 22000mAh battery.
Your phone should have battery indicator in 0.25% steps.
6a, nor now the last non EOL device that is tolerable I guess
5a was the last one with a headphone jack 😑
This comment is GrapheneOS propaganda making its way into Lemmy. Ban these 4chan tier advertisers.
AOSP with rebranded features is not doing anything over AOSP or LineageOS.
- Every app on Android is sandboxed
- there is no immutability thing with Android
- WebView already runs sandboxed by default on Android in general
- energy saving is dependent on phone chips and not this scam Android distro
- closed source hardware is the same as Intel ME/AMD PSP and not a "trusted element"
- Android is unified, there is nothing unique about this scam distro
GrapheneOS is pure snake oil with a disgusting sole developer that believes in pushing corporate Big Tech propaganda, harassing and witch hunting any critics, having a little social media army with sockpuppets to do this, abuses mentally challenged by hiding behind "autism" label (Louis Rossmann has a nice video), falsely claims he was swatted without giving evidence or coverage in local Canadian media and blames everyone from redditors to community mods to YouTubers and so on.
I covered this disease for about 5 years, and it emanates from the same sewer that "security" clowns like Brad Spengler and madaidan do in Linux community. All they do is either push their bullshit solutions or push corporate Big Tech propaganda and hate any FOSS project they think will not worship them.
https://old.reddit.com/r/privatelife/comments/ug9qnc/writeup_criticism_of_rprivacyguides_grapheneos/
Almost everything you said here is false, with the exception of controversy over the developer. However, GrapeheneOS is far from a single developer project, and the former lead stepped down a little while ago.
Well, I do not know, I just back up things with a bunch of quoting and hard evidence, and on top of it I am pretty self-critical as a leftist, so I feel fairly confident in my takes.
"Stepped down" is a big fat lie if anyone bothered to look at GitHub for GrapheneOS project, with just one person pushing commits to the project. From what I showed with DivestOS developer bullying incident, it is also proven that this is not a truly open source project, but one licensed depending on Micay's personal whims. There is no freedom in his code licensing and can go ahead to do shitty things like falsely accusing FlorisBoard and Bromite devs of being neonazis on GitHub issue trackers.
Edit: since this clown calls me "misinformation" spreader and asks for evidence, it is easy to look at one of the two long investigation articles I wrote, in which in share DivestOS XMPP room chat logs with Micay bullying DivestOS dev into banning me otherwise he will initiate a harassment campaign on social media against him. Similar stuff was done (calling neonazi in issue tracker) against Bromite project that used what should be open sourced code, but is not.
There is no freedom in his code licensing
Evidence required.
Most of them grant infinite freedom, with one requirement. (Not restrictive like *GPL.)
Others like vanadium are restrictive under GPL
https://github.com/GrapheneOS/hardened_malloc/commit/c3a580727a9a844da05ae4e2787a937253b09427
You guys should not listen to TheAnonymouseJoker, this is the evidence of him spreading misinformation.
(Please note I'm not in GrapheneOS community (banned), nor putting myself in the class of privacy racers.)
Edit: since this clown calls me “misinformation” spreader and asks for evidence, it is easy to look at one of the two long investigation articles I wrote, in which in share DivestOS XMPP room chat logs with Micay bullying DivestOS dev into banning me otherwise he will initiate a harassment campaign on social media against him.
Don't think that's related
Similar stuff was done (calling neonazi in issue tracker) against Bromite project that used what should be open sourced code, but is not.
https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1537851090514890752
That's personal emotion against bromite and lead to unacceptable wording. But Micay can't force others to remove their code if they do not violate it. nevertheless, Vanadium code is free in Linux communities' opinion, right?? (I'd not consider that since it is GPL)
simply: The license of vanadium is still gpl and is it free in your opinion?
harassing and witch hunting any critics
You can criticize GrapheneOS just because Micay will care about your words. But you can't do with something like OpenBSD because the developers are much knowledgeable and they never cared your words. They maintain an operating system for themselves and will not develop features to please users.
You can only criticize some small project with a developer that isn't good in communication. You are truly a petty person.
having a little social media army with sockpuppets to do this
No loser, the community is the army. (their quality isn't better than any Calyx or Lineage). The developers don't even have enough time to please user with a beautiful user interface then why they would screaming on social medias like you are doing.
But they maintained hardened_malloc and you never take a word for it.
You can only criticize some small project with a developer that isn't good in communication. You are truly a petty person.
Someone who hides behing "autism" label to use actually mentally challenged as shields on internet is a fucking disgusting person. Someone who goes to lengths of inventing gospel like getting swatted, with banning people asking for some evidence by claiming everybody is a troll, with no evidence for it in almost a year, is not a good person. Or him officially instructing in his Matrix chat to witch hunt any reddit users that criticise his project by abusing JSON and RSS feeds for accounts.
I did not know asking for evidence and making things transparent was trolling. I did not know this.
having a little social media army with sockpuppets to do this
No loser, the community is the army.
Lost you on this one. You are an unreasonable BSD evangelist with incoherent rantings.
Have a good life. May you gain wisdom. Blocking you.
Someone who hides behing “autism” label to use actually mentally challenged as shields on internet is a fucking disgusting person. Someone who goes to lengths of inventing gospel like getting swatted, with banning people asking for some evidence by claiming everybody is a troll, with no evidence for it in almost a year, is not a good person. Or him officially instructing in his Matrix chat to witch hunt any reddit users that criticise his project by abusing JSON and RSS feeds for accounts.
May you gain wisdom
Stupid but likes to appear dangerously.
Can you take some word for hardened_malloc or linux-hardened?
Android is Linux.
This should be repeated in every "Linux phone" thread.
It's also possible to install a full GNU userland using Termux, and nowadays a graphical interface is even possible with Termux.
It is repeated in every single damn "Linux phone" thread, and in every single thread an answer like this is needed: No, it fucking isn't. You know exactly what everyone means, stop being a dick about it.
It is repeated in every single damn “Linux phone” thread
Good. The more people pushing back against falsehoods, the better.
falsehoods
What falsehood are you referring to here?
"Android isn't Linux," of course. This is a very obviously false myth that is debunked very easily by simply looking at any Android device or the source code. It is not a myth spread by people who are technologically literate. Yet, this easily verifiable fact upsets Linux fans so much they resort to downvotes and ugly language (I have my ideas why, but it's probably a waste of time to elaborate in this thread).
Of course, the more savvy among the Linux fandom will admit that Android "contains Linux, but isn't real Linux" - but "real Linux" is yet another myth; that is, the myth that there is more to Linux than an operating system kernel, a myth that leads to further myths such as the myth of fragmentation, or the myth that distributions are worthless and we need a "unified app store." It's a myth that clouds history and assigns the wrong motives to the wrong people and meanings to things that don't need or deserve them (the misunderstanding that that "Linux" is "about openness" or "against corporations" for example, when large companies are the main contributors to and users of the Linux project). Linus Torvalds himself says he only cares about code, not about freedom or openness or any of that stuff (that's Richard Stallman's thing)
The fact that this myth is widely believed is not relevant. We don't live in a world where a falsehood becomes true if it is widely believed; people used to believe the sun revolved around the earth, for example. Also, a falsehood being widely believed doesn't mean it deserves to stay unchallenged.
The point of reminding Linux fans that Android is based on their beloved kernel isn't meant to be a well-actually or anything. It's a reminder that much of what a so called "Linux phone" can do is already possible without having to switch to an operating system that in many respects is not ready for general use. For example, you can run xfce in Termux - I hope this is enough to disabuse one of the silly notion of "not real Linux." For some reason. people looking for so-called "Linux phones" desire Android compatibility, and it turns out that because Android itself is Linux, it is far easier for Android to run so-called "Linux apps" than it is for so-called "mobile Linux" to run Android apps.
Android is Linux and that's a good thing. I should point out that it's not my preferred Linux operating system - I was a Pinephone early adopter and used to daily drive Mobian, I would prefer that or GNU Guix over Android. Still, not only is it a Linux based operating system, it also has its own rich free software ecosystem backed by F-Droid. It's very usable once you cut out the Google crap and stick to free software only (or as much as possible).
I wrote more on the "real Linux" myth here in case anyone's interested in more reading material.
"Android isn't Linux,"
Nobody here has said that. What's been pointed out is that the phrase "Linux phone" is being used by OP to refer to non-Android phones running GNU/Linux, which is a common use of the phrase.