1y ago

You're treading a fine line Mr. Tim Apple

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The key they used to make the base engine was ripped from online, not made by them that’s the nails in the coffin right there. They also provided means to publicly available bios keys. They did distribute it, you just had to dig into discord or other means to find it, but it was there.
They were forced to settle because they publicly talked about paying shit on discord too...
So they were forced to settle because they did this thing illegally, yet you say they didn’t…? What…?
- The key they used to make the base engine was ripped from online
  Proof please. Since it never went to court, nothing like this would have been "found" through the process of discovery. I suspect you're just making shit up.
  They also provided means to publicly available bios keys.
  Nope, you had to rip your own to use the software.
  They did distribute it, you just had to dig into discord or other means to find it, but it was there.
  Users chatting on discord != yuzu doing it.
  Nothing about Yuzu itself as a program was illegal. Period. How some of the developers talked in their Discord shows that they were using it for illegal things, which fucked them. Not the application itself.
  
  https://twitter.com/Zetta_330/status/1765081419687371165
  Look for yourself, they used someone else’s code, it’s technically not illegal according to the CLA of GitHub , but that’s not relevant to DCMA. It requires them to reverse engineer the code for an emulator, which they didn’t do.
  The dev provided the means in discord themselves, they also had a google drive with a ripped key, they also had files on discord of roms to test their gamesc which were acquired illegally.
  Please tell me what they did right to claim game preservation…?
  The fact that it didn’t go to discovery when other cases have is damning in itself, and you want it in your court? Okay….
  
  Look for yourself, they used someone else’s code, it’s technically not illegal according to the CLA of GitHub , but that’s not relevant to DCMA. It requires them to reverse engineer the code for an emulator, which they didn’t do.
  Did you read the link you sent? "it's coded in an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE."
  Hard to steal code when it's not the language your program is written in. And even if they did... "btw the entire basis for this claim is a reddit post from 3 years ago with the "stolen code" in question being ~50 lines of minor gui fixes" Doesn't sound like a whole lot of emulation code is in question here.
  The dev provided the means in discord themselves, they also had a google drive with a ripped key, they also had files on discord of roms to test their gamesc which were acquired illegally.
  Provide ANY evidence of this please. I don't participate in Discord. So just stating that they published shit there doesn't mean much to me.
  Please tell me what they did right to claim game preservation…?
  I don't have to. Emulation is 100% covered REGARDLESS of what they did "right" or "wrong". It's other actions that caused them to settle. Not YUZU as a program.
  The fact that it didn’t go to discovery when other cases have is damning in itself, and you want it in your court? Okay….
  No it doesn't. It doesn't mean a damn thing. What the fuck are you high on?
  
  Have they blocked you yet?
  
  Don't know. We'll find out I suppose. I responded to a different comment of theirs. But I suspect they did.
  Edit: They didn't... So they're just refusing to answer these particular points.
  
  https://twitter.com/Zetta_330/status/1765081419687371165 Look for yourself, they used someone else’s code, it’s technically not illegal according to the CLA of GitHub...
  It has nothing to do with some made up CLA that GitHub doesn't even have ರ⁠_⁠ರ , it's a matter of the license the project is under. Which is open source, e.g. GPL, Apache, MIT, etc. all of which doesn't prevent the use of the code in other open source projects, especially when consent was already given before hand.
  ...but that’s not relevant to DCMA.
  You bet your ass it isn't, because the code from Ryujinx doesn't infringe on Nintendo copyright either.
  DCMA
  It's DMCA.
  ... It requires them to reverse engineer the code for an emulator, which they didn’t do.
  How the shit do you think emulators are created without reverse engineering? You can't be serious.
  Please tell me what they did right to claim game preservation…?
  They used clean room reverse engineering which is a form of independent creation and already has decades of precedent in its favor.
  
  The fact that it didn’t go to discovery when other cases have is damning in itself, and you want it in your court? Okay….
  You realise that Nintendo's coffers are quite huge and they can just bleed out the Devs of yuzu if it had gone to court?
- They were forced to settle because they pirated TOTK ahead of its actual release to allow yuzu to support it, then sold that version that supported it on patreon -> "Made money off it" in nintendo's eyes. I think it's fucking stupid that they're gone, but I'm not surprised, Nintendo happily goes after anything.
  
  So they used illegal keys to test their illegal emulator…….. you just agreed to everything I’ve stated.
  
  Nothing illegal was mentioned there on the emulation side. TOTK is a rom in this specific instance. A Rip of a cartridge, which considering how early it was obtained must have been ripped from a cartridge by somebody (probably on the distribution chain or even from someone inside Nintendo). The system keys didn't change to support that ROM. They were dumb and advertised support for something that they shouldn't even have which (probably) to Nintendo proves piracy by the devs as they shouldn't have been able to obtain the rom.
  Nothing about this is how YUZU itself operates as a program. It's not an illegal emulator and you need to stop spouting this nonsense.
  
  For a “legal” emulator making money they sure didn’t put up a fight, I wonder why the other emulators are doing so and without the money that yuzu illegally pulled in? Maybe because yuzu wasn’t what you thought…?
  You literally say they did shit wrong, then in the same breath defend them. This is hilarious. For someone who apparently did nothing wrong, they rolled over hella fast, that doesn’t make you question what they actually did…? Here’s the clue, the lawyers told them they were fucked, settle before discovery or you’re worse than screwed. There’s no way to prove any of this obviously, but it’s the only scenario that makes a shred of sense given the circumstances.
  
  For someone who apparently did nothing wrong, they rolled over hella fast
  So Yuzu, at it's peak. Was making 45k a month from patreon donations. That's about 500k a year if that rate would sustain... In reality they were averaging 15-20k a month closer to 200k a year. Then a MASSIVE mega-corp hits you with legal action amounting to 2.4 billion or 12 YEARS of income... Do you put up a fight? How much of a fight can you put up as a small development team working on an emulator?
  How many years do you fight the mega-corp with virtually unlimited money? How much does all those lawyers fees tally up to?
  Of course they rolled over. EVEN IF THEY'RE RIGHT, it's going to be years and years of lawyers. It's going to be hundreds of thousands of dollars of money spent to defend this. Multiple years of wasted income.
  If I was a billionaire and came to your house and made a claim to something under threat of burying you legally. What would your response be? How much could you resist before you have to settle and walk away from it? This happens literally ALL the time. Very few people win.
  Yuzu is/was woefully unequipped to handle the situation. They "caved" so quickly because they knew they couldn't win the fight regardless. They'd exhaust all their income and time. The project would get no further development anyway. So rather than handing over all their assets, money, time, and future income... They just handed over all their assets and current money and the devs can move on to other projects.
  This is obvious and normal. You're just obtuse.
  You literally say they did shit wrong
  No. I said the emulator was and is legal. You're the one using "illegal" like you're trying to pass the bar. Actions the Yuzu devs took show poor intent. The program itself was perfectly fine. Yuzu accepting donations isn't illegal either by the way.
  
  Of course they rolled over. EVEN IF THEY'RE RIGHT, it's going to be years and years of lawyers. It's going to be hundreds of thousands of dollars of money spent to defend this. Multiple years of wasted income.
  And yet others with no income do fight and do win, so what kind of point do you think that’s making here…? Those don’t have the money to waste, and they fight, and win, since they did it right.
  
  Some people will do it out of honor/integrity. Other's don't want the hassle. You're reading into shit way too far. I completely understand why this project wants to fold under nintendo.
  I own an LLC, my LLC brings in roughly 160-180k a year and I pay myself only about 80k a year. If a multi-billion dollar company tried to nail me for something that I can't see the end of, I'd likely just fold the company and walk away to do something more worth my time.
  Nothing about this is evidence that they are what you claim they are. You're reading WAY too much into such an easy to explain decision.
  
  If a multi-billion dollar company tried to nail me for something that I can't see the end of, I'd likely just fold the company and walk away to do something more worth my time.
  They are asking for 10 years of you company’s back pay. You would be a fool to not atleast pursue legal advice and attempt to fight it in court. You just handed them 1,600k for nothing, while only have had made 800k in that time.
  And if you couldn’t plan and account for potential (very realistic) legal fees, you kinda don’t deserve to be in business. Use 5k a year to get yourself a lawyer and change your process so you aren’t illegal.
  Did you really think that would turn this into your favour? Lmfao. The only reason to walk away, is because you were caught doing something wrong and couldn’t win. So yuzu creators had no morals, and were only in it for the money? That’s really the point you want to make here?
  
  You just handed them 800k for nothing.
  They didn't necessarily hand them anything. If I get sued like I explained in my previous post for my LLC...
  I only have 30k in my company's account at this point. I turn off the patreon... I walk away from the company. Nintendo would only get the 30k even though the judgement was for 2.4 billion.
  And if you couldn’t plan and account for potential (very realistic) legal fees, you kinda don’t deserve to be in business. Use 5k a year to get yourself a lawyer and change your process so you aren’t illegal.
  Ahahahah. Yeah you're a moron. Thanks for confirming it. 5k a year wouldn't even be close to the cost for a legal battle against Nintendo.
  Edit: You edited your post. There's PLENTY of reasons to walk away. You're just being obtuse because of some "moral" dilemma you believe exists that doesn't. If they were actively developing their software, and actively spending their money they're donated via patreon/other income streams... They might only have like 10k in the bank (or less). And walking away makes a BOATLOAD of sense at that point. Pay a lawyer 200k+ for a multiyear lawsuit and maybe not win... or lose the application (open source... haha what a "loss") and lose 10k.... It's a nonissue, it's an OBVIOUS answer.
  
  Oh my sweet summer child, a LLC only protects you so much, look what happened to Gary Bowser, you would have to claim bankruptcy as well, your life is gone for years.
  Thats called preventative lawyers, you use that BEFORE Nintendo sends their dogs, and you give them the paper work you’ve already paid for and have and let them yell in courts.

137 comments