The problem with GIMP
GIMP was named after a character in Pulp Fiction. More than 20 years later, the name remains controversial and could be holding back the project.
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I think the UI and lack of non-destructive editing is holding it back more than the name, but IDK
the UI for GIMP is so horrifically bad that I basically refuse to use it. Not like, on principal or anything, if it improves i'd be happy to give it a shot, but because every experience I've had with it has been pretty immediately negative, and finding solutions to problems I have seems more effort than its worth. I want gimp to be good, it's a mature piece of software with a lot going for it, but it also feels like its design is kind of up its own ass, in a sense? It's weird.
I know what you mean — it's like a 90s design paradigm that doesn't take current conventions or best practices into account at all.
The thing is, floating windows were absolutely useless in the age of 13 - 17" CRTs. On modern ultrawide or even just conventional widescreen displays, they make far more sense.
Normally I wouldn’t take comments like this to heart. But I tried the latest beta recently after maybe 15y and wow. You’re totally bang on. I was stunned how bad the UI was. How bad the app was. Upon reading this, it all just sort of makes sense.
I’m sad things are so bad on the Linux front that this is the most highly rated design tool. Linux community deserves better.
The sad thing is like, it's an INCREDIBLY mature piece of software. It's well regarded for a reason. But if a piece of software requires that I fight with it to get it to behave how I want, that maturity has zero value at all. It kind of feels like a microcosm of Linux itself like 10-15 years ago, when I was tinkering with it in middle and high school. It's functional, but it asks you as a user to change how you think about using something like it in the first place while also forcing you to make concessions that seldom seem worthwhile.
And if Linux at large can get there, with things like proton and flatpak and Wayland and mature desktop environments and whatever else, gimp can too. But it seems like it's got a contributor base of people that like it's weird eccentricities, and take the UX development companies like Adobe and affinity (now canva) have invested and just shirked it on principal. And like, I get having an aversion to those sorts of companies/projects/developments, there's a lot of dark patterns there that are concerning. But I also feel like the kind of Linux user that defends and possibly enjoys GIMP in its current state is content fighting with their machine and the software on it, and forgets that there's value in taking joy in interacting with your computer. Good UI and good UX are implicitly valuable (not to mention the accessibility benefits, but that's a whole different conversation), and I feel the FOSS space forgets all of that completely. It's a shame.
Yeah spot on. It’s pushing 30. And what’s even more wild is that a road to good UX has already been mapped out. By Sketch. By Figma. By Photoshop. By Pixelmator. By Infinity Design. The list is endless. I haven’t seen anything stay so bad. In fact when I used it some 15y ago, I felt it to have been better than it currently is. The UI was at least close to Ps, which is actually quite intuitive (or used to be around 2019).
UX is gold. I used Sketch for work (we have Macs at the studio) and then were forced to switch to Figma. Since Figma is electron, it can’t hook into the OS like Sketch can. That meant the loss of edge snapping, specifically the handles on the vector lines. I felt that tiny itty bitty little loss in my bones. It made using Figma as a whole belaboured in comparison to Sletch (which I feel is near the pinnacle of UX).
Adobe Ai is also a good example of bad UX. That app is so backwards in the way it works and so eclectic in its feature deployment that you can’t just jump into it like you can say Ps. It feels like say Blender without any 3D knowledge.
There's always been a real stick in the mud attitude with GIMP. No matter how many people cry out about it's confusing UX it's always tried to serve the existing userbase rather than design to expand its usefulness to more people. I think this is a shame and is why GIMP never achieved what Blender has.
I remember trying to use it the best part of 20 years ago when I wanted to make animated gifs. It was so hard to use it was easier to pirate photoshop/imageready. Then a year or so back I tried to use it as I had moved to being a Linux user and was kind of astonished that the UX was still so bloody hostile.
I don't think I'm a moron (though how many morons do... so take this with a pinch of salt) but trying to figure out how to do basic things like cut and paste, cropping etc. without reading documentation just goes hellishly wrong. Any time I take the time to follow a guide on how to use it I'm taken aback by how unintuitive it is and once I'm done I forget it's idiosyncrasies immediately.
I remember "gimpshop" being a thing at one point, which I never got to use but heard it used the processing of GIMP with a more photoshop like UX. Though I believe that project lapsed.
Anyway, yeah it'd be nice in a world where things like GNOME have become such beautiful UXes that projects like GIMP have the courage to revolutionise themselves.
I remember "gimpshop" being a thing at one point
Well it might be a different project entirely, but PhotoGIMP is still a thing.
Having spent ages trying to adopt it and failing like 20+ years ago it's just crazy to me that every time I give it another chance, it still doesn't have non destructive editing and is still a non-intuitive UI from hell. It feels like they want it to be like this.
They've been working on GIMP 3.0 for over a decade, which has non-destructive editing, as well as an upgrade to the UI toolkit (although actual UI changes are still to-do). They don't want it to be this way, development has just been insanely slow. Mostly due to lack of developers and donations, although that has been changing recently.
They planned to have GIMP 3.0 out by May, but with so many delays it might be a few months yet.
Good to know, will keep a watch for it.
I really want to use it but always end up closing it in frustration and firing up photoshop.
Yeah, the destructive editing and lack of a content aware fill is made me stop using it and go back to Photoshop. Krita also seems more usable these days in the FOSS world. The name is a lot easier to fix than those missing features, though.
NDE available in the next version https://daviesmediadesign.com/gimp-3-0-update-non-destructive-editing-complete/?noamp=available
Near death experience?
Yeah, every install comes with a hit of DMT
Ima skip this update and go straight to the next one when it releases.
for ADE - the actual death experience?
I absolutely love the UI. It's literally a major part of why I prefer it.
which is great for you, but not for anyone who has even briefly used more mainstream options
Cool condescension, but I've been using Photoshop on and off since 2005, have occasionally used Illustrator, and used to spend an absurd amount of time with Flash. In addition to GIMP, I currently have Krita and Inkscape installed.
I literally prefer GIMP's UI. It doesn't have extra shit, it doesn't try to force me into a single window, and it goes really, really well with a multi-monitor setup. I don't care that it doesn't automatically edit non-destructively, because my workflow is adapted to it. Layers and folders are plenty.
No one piece of software is going to be the ideal solution for everyone. That's capitalistic exceptionalism infecting the rational analysis of what tool suits which user best. Photoshop may suit you better, but I'd take the sleek usefulness of GIMP over the bloat that accompanies all that extra stuff I don't need any day.
Why do I need an AI strapped to my tool for pixel art, pathing, and masking?
Wasn’t supposed to be condescending, apologies that I came across like that. I just more meant you aren’t representative of who a FOSS potential killer app needs to reach. I agree, I don’t want cloud, AI, subscriptions. But I do want a tool palette and interaction experience that doesn’t require looking at the docs to use.
You have literally no idea who I am or what I do.
I used GIMP to make a mock-up of a sign for a restaurant just yesterday. Is it going to be the tool I use for the final product? No, because that'll be in vector, but it's a lot easier to slap something together in than Inkscape or Krita.
'Killer apps' are meaningless in comparison to useful apps. I'm an artist who needs usable tools for her work. GIMP qualifies. Personally, I find it way easier and more intuitive to navigate than Krita, Inkscape, or any of Adobe's suite. It may not be for you, that's cool.
But what isn't cool is to pretend you know about other people's lives and what they need. Speak for yourself, you are perfectly capable of doing that. If you don't like GIMP's UI, that's great. If you think GIMP's UI is absolutely horrible for every user and nobody would ever use it for professional work.. you're literally just completely wrong.
Have you tried to use Photogimp?
Yes and it does help tremendously, but I much prefer Krita. What I'd really like is Affinity Photo on Linux, even if it isn't FOSS...
You might have missed the news, Affinity sold out to Canva. Really sucks, Affinity was the only truly good alternative but I put it in the mental "never touch" category immediately when that happened.
You might have missed the news, Affinity sold out to Canva.
Oh FFS, I had no idea... Can something not be turned to shit by big tech for once?
