German city bans ‘silent fox’ gesture in schools over similarity to far-right sign
German city bans ‘silent fox’ gesture in schools over similarity to far-right sign
Bremen says symbol, used to call for silence in class, ‘in danger of being mistaken’ for Turkish extremist ‘wolf salute’
A city in northern Germany has become the first to issue an all-out ban on the use of a hand gesture used to encourage silence in the classroom because of its close resemblance to a far-right Turkish gesture.
The “silent fox” gesture – where the hand is posed to resemble an animal with upright ears (the little and forefinger) and a closed mouth (the middle fingers pressed against the thumb) – has long been seen as a useful teaching tool by educators in Germany and elsewhere. It signals to children that they should stop talking and listen to their teacher.
But authorities in the port city of Bremen say the symbol is “in danger of being mistaken” for the right-wing extremist “wolf salute”, from which it is indistinguishable.
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This is also just a cutesy hand sign for "fox" in Japan, with zero alt-right symbolism. Foxes are a significant part of the mythology there, and there are all sorts of tales about leaving food for fox spirits to bring good fortune. There's even a prominent vTuber who's regularly depicted making the sign.
I wish these alt-right fuckwads would stop trying to wreck shit for the rest of the world.
I feels like, the far right will not stop ruining thing to begin with, and with everything banned due to associated with far right movement, they will continue to evolve and adopt their gesture and symbol to further ruining everything just to trigger everyone else. That's how they empowering themselves, and people took their bait, hook, line, and sinker.
It's time to considering another way to tackle extremism than to ban symbol and hand sign.
It's time to considering another way to tackle extremism than to ban symbol and hand sign.
There's no other way and it's important to ban extremism. The importance to not give room to Nazi like ideologies is bigger than people no longer doing fox hand gestures in public. Sucks but so it is with a lot of laws, a lot of people aren't the problem it's the few that are.
Also, so far we've been very successful banning these symbols. The US, not so much and look how well this works out.
If the issue of misuse appears more prominent in Asia, I'm sure they'll act the same way and ban it.
There’s no other way
All you do is disenfranchise the same people those extremist fucks are looking to disenfranchise to begin with. So if you're stating there's no other way... Then you're helping the extremists.
You don't do this right away and not for everything the extremists touch. But There's a good reason why swastika and Nazi salut are illegal. The silent fox gesture isn't that new.
So far I've only read "we can't forbid it", so what? Make an offer then how to solve it. I'm all ear.
Certainly not letting them spread their propaganda is goal here. The extremist aren't helped here by forbidden the hand sign because everyone who is no longer using it was using it in good intention before, knows why not to use it any longer. It's that simple.
There’s a good reason why swastika and Nazi salut are illegal.
No there isn't. You made the symbol illegal in Germany. What did that do? Did it kill of all the Nazis? It's funny because I keep hearing about this push for neo-nazis out there. Making it illegal does nothing against the hateful groups and does everything to hurt the bystanding groups that are also affected. In this case a good chunk of history of many cultures.
So far I’ve only read “we can’t forbid it”
You can do whatever you want. It's your country so to speak. Since I don't live there right now I can't vote (I did live in Germany for some time). But don't claim to be so supportive of minority groups when you're suppressing them under the name of "stopping nazi's"... even though you're not even stopping the neo-nazi groups either.
Certainly not letting them spread their propaganda is goal here.
See above points about the neo-nazi groups...
knows why not to use it any longer. It’s that simple.
At the expense of culture/religious beliefs. That's the problem. You're forcing society to remove these things at the expense of other minorities.
Make an offer then how to solve it. I’m all ear.
Write better laws that actually targets the act of spreading Nazi propaganda rather than some random symbol that have myriads of meanings outside of "nazi".
You throw so much stuff into this. I don't feel like writing an essay. Especially since you already brushed over the important parts and then bring up minorities. I literally don't care about minorities when it's about a swastika. Indian managed to add four dots or inverted it. And there are so tiny fractions of minorities of them here, that it doesn't matter. The very same with the fox gesture. At very most you see it at a baby metal concert and that's about it.
Look what is going on when you allow symbols.
https://reddit.com/comments/1e3hdou
The police isn't even stopping them.
Yes we still have neo Nazis showing up, but exactly because of people like you. Who gave them room. Who allowed them to group up. Who didn't deny them spreading their hate. I have very very little sympathy if the removal of those rights does touch a tiny minority. It's not a tolerance paradox that you fabricate.
write better laws
What a joke of a reply. That's exactly what they do, forbid ideology symbols. So people don't watch TV or go on the streets and see these extremist group symbols and they themselves feel recognized and welcome. You're out of your mind if you believe this has no effect. Stop protecting Nazis and other fascism by throwing unimportant culture into it. You do know what Nazis want? They screw your history and culture. If this little bit of, losing a hand gestures, is too much to show a big fuck you to those extremist, then you're just a hidden supporter.
What other law, than making this perticular symbol illegal, is there to do? All the other things are already not allowed. You have yet to be precise. Because you don't have a solution!
You throw so much stuff into this
I mean... I quoted your post and responded to each point I wanted to respond to. You don't have to respond to literally everything I say.
You have yet to be precise. Because you don’t have a solution!
Because gasp I'm not a politician. It's not my job to make laws.
See Doesn't need to be a book's worth of response. The rest isn't worth addressing with you because you seem to consistently miss my point.