How can I vote for Kamala Harris if she supports Israel’s war? Here is my answer | Bernie Sanders
How can I vote for Kamala Harris if she supports Israel’s war? Here is my answer | Bernie Sanders
Trump says Netanyahu is doing a good job and Biden is holding him back. Even on this issue, Trump is worse
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They're using synpathy towards people suffering genocide to try and coral people to the polls. I've seen this before. What happened with Roe V Wade? Why are kids still in cages at the border? Why is minimum wage still so low?
Madam Vice President, too little has been done on issues that were previously promised. I cannot take these people at their word.
Want my vote? End support now. It's been a year of genocide with you at the right hand of Biden. All those lives lost happened on your watch. I will not be duped into voting for someone who has been complicit in commiting genocide, who is now promising to stop that same genocide because it happens to coincide with their political goals.
I will not support a genocide, on the promise of it being ended, only to wake up on January 21st just to hear 'Well, the situation is more complicated than just simply ending support, but I vow...!"
You've had a year to end it, and too little has been done to stop it. I will not vote for a genocidal candidate. I will not say that I support genocide by voting for these people. I will not be an accomplice.
It's sickening to think that they probably allowed the genocide to continue just to use it as a carrot to lead people to the ballot box, all the while lining the pockets of the military industrial complex.
Fuck off with your promises, you're in the White House now.
Cool, just have a couple quick questions you can maybe help me out with:
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How exactly does a Harris loss benefit Palestine? Serious question. If she loses, Trump wins, and he is very vocally supportive of Israel. I get how this helps bolster a narrative, but how does this help Palestinians?
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How is what you're doing any different from using sympathy towards people suffering genocide to try to influence voters? Serious question. If leveraging the tragedy in Palestine to corral people to vote a certain way is bad, why are you doing it right now?
I'll respond when it's convenient for me, but I appreciate your patience.
Americans can vote for whoever they want. They already have blood on their hand and I hope they will pay for their crimes.
Pay how exactly?
Trump belongs in jail, not in an election. The fact he's allowed to run in the first place proves that democrats needs him as a scapegoat. They need to win to cover their own complicity in the genocide.
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The Palestinians are fucked either way. Either the party that enabled the genocide will stay in power, or a party will take over that everyone agrees will be worse.
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My stance on genocide will not change. There's a good chance that the dems will use the genocide as a carrot to get voters to the polls, and then move the goalposts later. They're leveraging genocide for political gain, I'm just against genocide.
Then you should be trying to prevent the guy who wants all the genocides from getting elected. But you're not. Which is why no one believes you're here in good faith.
I don't care what others believe, they're voting to support genocide. The only control I have in this situation is to not actively support those commiting genocide. Everything else is out of my control.
Your options are "Genocide, but might be talked into dialing it back if politically viable" vs "More genocide, for genocide's sake"
All you achieve by not supporting the first is making the second more likely. If you think Bibi's dictator-loving buddy is better for Gaza than the career politician doing career politician things during a close election, you are an enemy of Palestine.
After the election when AIPAC loses their leverage, Harris could come around. Trump will double down. I'm voting against doubling down, are you?
Genocide is going to happen regardless, the only option I see as viable is to not throw my support behind the parties pushing for it. Harris could come around, sure, but I'm not going to bet on it and I refuse to support it.
You do realize that "Palestine's fucked anyway, it's more important to impotently virtue signal that I'm upset about it than to do something which might actually help them in any way" is absolutely sociopathic take that cements you as an enemy of Palestine, right?
This is about voting for genocidal candidates, and has nothing to do with private donations or contributions to the Palestinians. I can donate to the cause to help them with food, water, and medical supplies and not vote for genocide.
Uh huh, which won't matter much if Harris loses and Trump gives Bibi the all clear to nuke Gaza. If you actually cared, you'd consider the material conditions of others and the actual consequences of your vote. But the rational and compassionate choice feels icky, so you'd rather polish your halo while Bibi finishes the job.
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Virtue signalling about genocide and letting the 'genocide to the max' guy win will show the Palestinian people how much you care for their plight.
Trump is calling Netanyahu to ditch the ceasefire. It’s called conspiracy to commit genocide. It’s a capital offense.
The fact that he is not in jail yet proves the dems needs him as a scapegoat, otherwise they would have to answer for their own crime.
I didn't create the situation, I'm just reacting to it. Feel free to tell your kids and grandkids that, when given the choice, you actively supported a genocide.
You're actively supporting genocide.
It's very obvious to absolutely everyone that allowing Trump to win will produce the worst possible outcome for palestinians.
I honestly feel sorry for you. I think there's a strong possibility your own kids and grandkids will be asking you about this time in history, and I suspect you're going to realise in future how silly this "do x or I won't vote for you" position is.
Americans are actively supporting genocide already.
Would you like me to make a pdf with some words and some awful photos of what palestine would look like with a Trump supported Netanyahu?
You realise that Netanyahu wants you to abstain from voting right?
Russia, China, Israel, all understand that they can't get you to vote for Trump, so they've been pouring many millions of dollars into manipulating your good self into not voting.
In the article from this post Sanders explains in great detail why Harris is the most likely to negotiate a cease fire. Is that what you would like?
If you refuse to vote for Harris you're actively supporting genocide.
By virtue of birthplace, we are all supporting it. The only control I have in this situation is to not actively support the people who are saying they will give support to a genocidal regime. Also saying "Don't commit genocide or I won't vote for you" really should not be the controversial take that it's become.
The only control I have in this situation is stand by and implicitly support/not oppose the people who are saying they will genocide even harder abroad and bring the genocide home so I can keep my moral high ground.
You are both actively supporting and working to accelerate said genocide. Feel better?
I am already complicit by virtue of birthplace, that doesn't mean I have to take an active role in supporting the lesser evil.
Then you've chosen to support the greater evil.
You can hate the two party system all you want, but it's the reality we live in.
It is the reality we live in, and I'm not happy about it as much as the next guy. I refuse to give my support to any candidate who is saying they'll support a genocidal regime. The rest is out of my control.
Wrong. You are given some amount of control with your vote. You could choose to do something and are instead choosing to do nothing. You are choosing to abrogate your control.
As voting is not required, I have not abrogated. I am doing something, I am using discretion to withhold support of genocidal candidates.
"If I can't have zero genocide then I don't care to vote against the candidate that is very likely to be even worse."
Especially with only two candidates with a chance of winning, a vote doesn't mean unconditional support for everything that candidate wants. Sucks, but if you want to make your wishes known more specifically, you have to do more than just vote (if even that) and complain on the internet.
If I can’t have zero genocide
Look at where we are.
They voted against both, dont be mad your candidate was so shit she couldnt clear a 'dont genocide' hurdle from a voter. Thats not either your faults or problems its Harris' problem.
The current system (or voter inertia) doesn't allow you to vote against both. One of them will win, your only decision is which one you want (or despise less). If your vote doesn't threaten their win, then when you vote for neither you're voting for the winner.
The current system (or voter inertia) doesn’t allow you to vote against both.
false premise.
One of them will win,
Yes.
your only decision is which one you want (or despise less).
false conclusion.
If your vote doesn’t threaten their win, then when you vote for neither you’re voting for the winner.
Man, you're a mental pretzel. please re-read your statement a few times. think really hard on what you just said. come back when you realize how that statement works both ways and is beautiful nonsense.
You agreed that either Trump or Harris will win. Your vote can only threaten one of them, by voting for the other or an alternative candidate. Same with not voting, the winner won't care about your missing vote.
That means no action you take in the election will harm both candidates, ergo there is no way to vote against both of them.
That means no action you take in the election will harm both candidates, ergo there is no way to vote against both of them.
mmmm. does it though? you think the goal is to harm one of their campaigns. its not. the goal is to do two things:
- ensure when harris gets into office shes bloodied enough in the deep blue states to know she needs to work with bernie and ideally you know not commit a genocide.
- ensure if trump wins that the democrats control both houses.
you can read my post history. I've been very clear on this goal. its the only reason I'm wasting my time atm doing this along with other activities the last 4 months I'd really rather not be wasting my time with. like composing emails to my critters reminding them my vote for them is at risk if the genocide continues.
What amazes me is individuals like yourself won't even put an ounce of effort into helping Palestinians. just a few hours a day, lie to a few pollsters, email your critters, maybe vote 3rd party for president if you live in a deep blue state.
If harris campaign is harmed by this, well I can hardly be blamed. I didn't chose her policy positions. I certainly wouldn't have chosen genocide as a platform. but people do weird things. like mentally contorting themselves into a pretzel to support a genocidal candidate when not doing so is much easier. I hope you manage to find your way, but I doubt it. 🤷♀️
I'm glad to see that you're doing more than just voting, which I was advocating for in the first post you answered.
yes unfortunately you're advocating for the 2nd shittest outcome. a flat harris win, when you could be advocating for a squeaker that leaves her position tenuous and her leadership within the dem party weak. please start lieing to your critters, exit polls, etc, and if possible vote against her in deep blue states.
You realize that you're currently being con'd. Netanyahu wants Trump to win the presidential election, because he knows Trump will be friendly towards his genocidal actions. Netanyahu is doing everything in his power to extend this genocide so that he can stay in power; and so that he can keep single issue voters like you away from the polls.
Netanyahu knows that if he ended Israel's genocide before the election, the Biden administration would receive credit in playing a role in mediating the conflict. This would likely assure a Harris victory. By escalating the conflct, he is assisting Trump. Why would you think that this genocidal maniac is doing this?
So here you are, the single issue voter that is tuning out all of the other important issues. For example, Trump considers communist (all you genius tankies) some of the biggest enemies in the USA; or how Trump backers and policymakers wants to remove women's right to make decisions about their bodies.
Do I believe that Biden/Harris has done enough to help Palestinians? The answer is no. Do I believe Biden/Harris feels like Netanyahu and the Israeli government are in the wrong? Yes. Do I believe Trump feels like Israel is in the wrong? No.
So even if this is your single issue, as an American living thousands of miles from Israel, your best way to assist Palestinians right now is to put someone in the Whitehouse who at least views them as human-beings. By not voting or voting third-party, you're not helping anyone but yourself. You are doing it so you don't need to "feel bad" about crossing some morale boundary.
Listen man, if that's the route you want to go, then fine. But I'm gonna go ahead and waltz my sorry butt to the polls and cast my vote for the person who will more likely do something to assist Palestinians even if I feel like I'm crossing a moral boundary. Am I gonna feel good doing it? No. But it's the better decision to make, especially considering all the other important issues that surround this election beyond the Palestinian genocide.
Wall of text nonsense. If trump wins thats Harris' fault not mine. She's run a shit campaign and alienated the left thinking she can dislodged voters feom trump, thats her decision.
Bibi has no bearing on this. Hes happy as a clam either way.
And gaza is just the issue im using here i have a laundry list of problems with harris. Its the easiest to explain and easiest to build support for.
Finally if you think voting for harris in a 20+ dem state is going to help trump win you're full of shit. The best way we can fuck bibi is by getting harris to about face on israel and the best way to do that is nose dive her support in deep blue states. She'll still win but her credibility with congressional reps wont hold water.
I'm advocating for the outcome where the candidate that doesn't want to jail their opponents and use the military against protestors wins, so that you can continue to make your disagreement with parts of their policy known.
Same friend same. Im just increasing the likelihood that policy does change.
Then americans voters are guilty of conspiracy to commit genocide, which is a capital offense.
A vote literally means she gets immunity for her complicity with genocide for the next 5 years. You can hardly get more unconditional.
The unfortunate thing is we can't have zero genocide. I just don't want to be complicit in supporting it. I didn't create this situation or these choices, I'm just responding to them.
Not voting would make you complicit in making it worse if Trump wins. Doing nothing is still a move.
The genocide is going to happen either way, as both candidates are in favor of it. The only choice I have in the matter is whether to to support those candidates with my vote or not. I am complicit by virtue of birthplace, that doesn't mean I have to actively support it by helping the lesser evil further their political goals.
You're not helping tankies defeat the allegations that they're braindead...
I never claimed to be a tankie, so allegations against them hold no weight with me.
Good plan dude. Trump to the rescue.
I don't think anyone thinks trump is going to rescue anything.
Oh okay, then you're voting for Harris, right?
Trump is calling Netanyahu to ditch the ceasefire. It's called conspiracy to commit genocide. It's a capital offense.
The fact that he is not in jail yet proves the american leader are complicit. The dems needs him as a scaregoat. They need the immunity, because they are also guilty of conspiracy to commit genocide (https://www.amnestyusa.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/4.29.2024-NSM-20-AIUSA-submission-re-Israel.pdf)
Vote for whoever you want. You will elect a genocider. Your country is fucked up and you are complicit.
The lady in favor of continuing to support a genocidal regime? No.
Ahh yes, of course, of course, so Trump to the rescue then right?
Pretty sure we just had this conversation. Would you like me to copy and paste my previous response?
Mmm, I see, I see, so you're voting for the only other person who could possibly win this election, Kamala Harris, right?
See my previous response.
Buddy. It's more genocide or less genocide, courtesy of the voting atrocity that is first past the post:
We all hate that choice. And as the video shows, voting third party truly, truly is a vote for "more genocide". It's terrible.
This is a tale of dorky obscure voting technicalities killing the potential for third parties, with the worst imaginable side effects in Gaza, and if you want to eliminate those side effects, you do it by playing where the action is: get ranked choice passed. Sort of like how a horrific, torturing skin disease might be beaten by some nerd with a bunch of diagrams about chemistry.
Found the Republican.
I'm further left than you're probably comfortable with.
You're facing south.
So kiss my north end.
Can't get to it. Your head is in the way.
I'd rather be doing that than voting to support a genocidal candidate.