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Well I'm glad Hexbears have stopped spamming pig testicles at least. But. First impressions mean a lot and they did not make a good one.
Their most obnoxious members really need to learn how to proselytize because they're their own worst enemy.
You don't lead with the crazy genocide denial, you lead with pointing out stuff like Churchill genociding 3 million Indians with the Bengal famine, or that South Korea was a fascist state before the Korean war.
Oh, look, so was Vietnam.
Oh, weird, so was etc etc etc etc
South Korea only fascist before the war. Definitely wasn't a fascist pseudo dictatorship until like what year is it?... I think they're still electing people related to the former dictators or in that weird cult shit. South Korea is like that super crazy cousin you have, that you forget about because their quiet and don't call you very often.
They were fascist until their President-For-Life type guy was assassinated by a member of the KCIA in 1979. He was definitely supported in some manner by the American CIA but just a couple years later Reagan would put a stop to all that "fighting fascism" business.
The people who got PBBd deserved every one of them.
Every person who read the comments on a thread deserved it? The replies being public ruins that excuse.
I am assuming PBB is some acronym for pig bollocks.
PPB is an acronym for Pig Poop Balls.
It is a gag dated back to the Dark Days of Reddit, where there were regular posts about, "Well, actually, homelessness is good in the free market pee pee poo poo I am very intelligent."
As they were not engaging in good faith, we, too, chose not to engage in good faith. Thus, we sent them photos of a prize hog defecating on his own testicles. The tradition of sending PPB to bad faith actors carries on to the present day.
It is very funny.
No, you just use it against anyone who doesn't immediately agree with you on everything, and now you are the bad faith actor, and you've made being a bad faith actor more important than genuinely helping any progressive causes.
You're acting like it's gore or something. It's literally just poop. Gross, maybe, but not really that offensive. Certainly not as disgusting as liberal takes on homelessness, bombing 3rd world countries, sacrificing lives for capitalism, etc.
And unlike those, a pig pooping on their own balls never hurt anyone.
Ah you replied but the notification didn't end up in my mailbox.
Here's my answer:
What about the sexual harassment?
Can you give an example?
I actually just dm'd you with the post earlier, check your messages.
I just saw it, you sent me this link:
https://hexbear.net/post/613387
which contains a screenshot of this comment:
https://lemm.ee/comment/3622601
where /u/randint complains that hexbear admin /u/TomboyShulk dismissed his complaints about three other comments, which he then links to.
The three comments are all from the same 22 day old thread, and his engagement with the thread starts here:
https://hexbear.net/comment/3829077
There are two pieces of context I think ought to be mentioned:
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"post hog" and other "post your dick" variants are a canned /r/ChapoTrapHouse response against any user who seems like an unusually odious or bad faith wrecker or reactionary, like a rebuttal to 4chan's "tits or gtfo". It started when a neo-nazi went on CTH to spout race science but was mocked into posting his dick, which defused the guy completely; at the time, the subreddit was getting a lot of people like that, and "post hog" became one of the go-to responses because it was low-effort and it shut them down. It bewildered and frustrated people who were there say awful things or make users feel unsafe.
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/u/randint has been on a crusade against hexbear for fucking weeks. He goes out of his way to stir shit and has explicitly admitted that his aim is to make the site look bad. Increasingly frustrated hexbears pointed out his bad faith engagement in the thread I linked. He goes about it in a bloodless, polite-sounding way, but he's not there with good intentions. Only at the very end of the thread, deep in the exchange, did anyone give him the canned response, and it made him leave.
Ok, the deep lore of "post your hog" makes sense, and I honestly don't think I can argue against sexually harassing a literal Neo-Nazi. Let the kid gloves come off.
But it is straight up sexual harassment. Yeah, it shuts people down quickly and easily, that's literally what sexual harassment was designed for. And it's not being reserved for Nazis, it's being used liberally and the community and moderators foster an atmosphere that encourages sexual harassment of outsiders.
And to be fair, I see there's outside actors acting in bad faith. But sexual harassment is either okay in a community, or it isn't. You can't blame a pro-sexual-harassment environment on a bad faith outside actor. And when sexual harassment has been normalized, how much space do you really have to complain about other people being bad faith actors?
The really terrible thing is that I don't think Hexbear is even capable of having a good faith discussion about sexual harassment, with itself. If anyone was to point out the issue, the mods and most prolific posters would not be able to take it seriously and nothing would change.
In unixporn someone brought to light that the traditional term "ricing" had racist origins, and there was a little pushback, but by and large the community accepted that the term will be removed and banned. The community learned, and changed.
I have 0% expectation that Hexbear community is capable of listening, or changing.
i think it's a fucking massive leap to characterize hexbear as a "pro-sexual harassment" environment. You can argue that they are overzealous in who they consider nazis sometimes, but multiple hexbears earlier in the thread did call /u/randint a nazi apologist for defending Adrien Zenz, so it's clear they considered him a fair target. Hexbear users see hog posting as punching upward at privileged bullies and reactionaries they are powerless against in real life. You can dispute that view, you might even consider them delusional or self-indulgent, but I think it's an enormous leap to conclude that they are generally in favor of sexual harassment of people.
I got dozens of people telling my to post my dick because I said that neopronouns are stupid.
I wouldn't consider myself a Nazi, I'm extremely anti-Nazi. I'm very involved in trans activism in real life. I'm in management - I changed schedule posting so that it includes pronouns. I ordered give out free pronoun pins (I wear one too). I correct people and guests when they misgender someone. I've been to marches and I've donated to events. I have a lil trans flag in my window. Real life trans safety and inclusion is important to me. (And why I'm off put when a Hexbear confuses all people with penises as automatically being "men") I'm not making these up to try to look a certain kind of way, this is all verifiably real and I can get you the pictures and receipts if you need them.
Maybe I'm not pronoun progressive enough yet and I'll change my mind later. I still think neopronouns are stupid, and only part of chronic online-ness. I'm willing to consider that I might still be in the wrong here.
But if you sexually harass someone and get 100 upvotes, you're punching down.
If the mods delete any posts and ban users who call out sexual harassment, you're punching down.
What I see is people who probably don't stand up to bullies in real life, they turn into bullies when they're the big fish in a little pond.
You called them unhinged for having neo pronouns. People have been attacking them for years, they expect a fight, and if you come in and fucking mock their pronouns and talk down to them they’re not gonna care enough to find out about your real world stances or activism, they’re just going to look at the comment right in front of them, and assume you’re some bigoted CNN lib who pays performative lip service to genderqueer rights but sees them as goofy caricatures and has no interest in understanding them. They get enough people like that already. If they took the time to investigate and understand and categorize everyone who threw shit at them it’d be a fucking full time job.
And for the record, I didn't come out swinging against neopronouns. I don't think there's anything wrong with neo-pronouns themselves.
What happened is that I saw a community who
- sexually harasses people
- fetishizes violence and executions
- fears and mistrusts the media (to an extreme)
- draws harsh in-group out-group lines
- blurs the lines of their opinions with irony
- "the West"
And I saw all that and double sets of pronouns including neopronouns, and I was like omg, it's Nazis pretending to be leftists. They act like Nazis, who ran with the pronoun thing and took it to the highest level. (I know now they aren't Nazi's, but the behavior makes a really bad first impression)
The problem was never actually the neopronouns. It was the Nazi-like behavior that came attached.
You called them unhinged for having neo pronouns
No I didn't, now that's a gross misrepresentation.
I said it was unhinged that I was being told that I was literally Hitler because I think neopronouns are silly.
If you think everyone who finds neopronouns impractical for real life is a Nazi, that sounds pretty unhinged, I still feel that way.
some bigoted CNN lib who pays performative lip service to genderqueer rights
Pfff, yeah when in that same post Hexbears couldn't tell the difference between a man and a person with a penis.
If they took the time to investigate and understand and categorize everyone who threw shit at them it’d be a fucking full time job.
Well I guess that's the way you justify sexual harassment.
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Someone forgot to remove their dog's testicles once. It was a very harassing experience. Then I walked through the woods and saw a deer. It turned away and proceeded to harass me. Then I saw a pig and he said:
Nice false equivalence!
Got any more brain dead arguements to share?
Actually I've got an argument that I think you'll really appreciate:
If you were more offended by PPBs than what the people we posted that in response to were saying then you deserved to be offended
You sent it to everyone who said anything you didn't like day one of you federating. Lemmy.ml news and politics communities basically just became a toxic waste dump for a month and a half because hexbears thought people weren't left enough, or thinking that Russia invading Ukraine was bad.
Then it was already a toxic waste dump. You just agreed with the opinions we were pushing back on
By arguing in bad faith and throwing the baby with the bathwater.
Your principled critic
Our bad faith argument
you don't agree with us. Don't pretend like it's anything different.I don't see how the baby bieng thrown out cliche applies. We see libs parroting bullshit we reply, there's no baby to be thrown out when it comes to libs and their propaganda or brainworms
Rent freeeeeeeee
Don't know your specific beliefs but no in all liklihood I don't agree with you. I don't think I even remotely preteneded that. We probably agree on some things but I expect our over arching political beliefs are going to be at odds.
Just for my knowledge is a liberal anyone who isn't a Marxist-leninist? Are Fascists Liberals under your definition?
No, just liberals are liberals. People who ultimately support capital and liberal democracy. You don't have to be ML. Hexbear is non-sectarian, but we expect internationalist, anti-capitalist, and supportive of intersectional struggle from people on the actual left.
Fascism is basically capital abandoning liberalism to defend itself from socialism. So, fascists arent liberals. But sometimes when they get scratched the fash does comes out. Ask the average lib about the homeless, or Roma for european libs.
If you care more about how we agrue than what we're argueing about then you don't agree with us on anything you wouldn't abandon in a heartbeat
But sometimes when they get scratched the fash does comes out.
My otherwise lib AF friends when I talk about less car centric infrastructure in a nutshell.
Carbrain turns libs people into
pretty fast.To be fair, the infastructure in the US and consooom car culture really stacks the deck in favor of car derangement syndrome here
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nice whataboutism!
of course we came in an acted like dickheads, we didn't agree with your opinion
Petulant children, mentally and philosophically.
Whataboutism and hexbears. Name a more iconic duo.
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