14h ago

User on /r/privacy wanting to leave Reddit, looking for alternatives. Most of the comments suggest patching a Reddit client, or Mastodon. A few comments mention Lemmy, but don't link to instances

old.reddit.com Quitting Reddit. Need suggestions for new communities online.

I am sick of reddit ads, the constant downgrade of UI design, killing 3rd party apps, and a business model leaning more heavily into selling user...

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25 comments

I'd argue the fediverse is probably not the ideal place for a privacy focused audience. There is no privacy here, only illusions of it. I can easily see who upvoted this post for example.
- It depends what kind of privacy you mean. It is super easy to make a lemmy account with a throwaway email and access it via TOR.
  If you’re looking for privacy in terms of the content you post, maybe something like SimpleX or Signal group chats are better.
- I mean, social media is inherently not private, everything you do is public; even votes (though some software supports private voting)
  But if you're tracking, datamining, or selling my data then there's the problem.
  
  But if you're tracking, datamining, or selling my data then there's the problem.
  And that's easier on the fediverse than any other social media platform. It's the downside of the federation aspect. Lemmy doesn't need to have this stuff built in, anyone can just track and datamine and sell data as they please from anywhere. And I think it's foolish to think Meta at least isn't already doing that, considering they are well aware of the fediverse and how it works. But others are probably already on it too.
  
  And that's easier on the fediverse than any other social media platform
  This seems to be a big misunderstanding, if we're talking votes and participation then you are right, but participating data is but a fraction of the data collected by all other forms of social media. Websites can track:
  Login and usage times
  Ip addresses
  Every single action that is made, clicked, viewed, etc
  And with apps they track
  Notification data
  Local network
  User behaviour
  User engagement
  And depending on the given permissions much more
  I own my instance, therefore I own the all of the data that could be tracked. Yes my participation is synced with the entire Fediverse, but nothing about my usage and behaviour is.
  
  Let’s say we create a new Lemmy server, for the purpose of illegally datamining users data. What data can we get?
  Public up/down votes
  Public messages posted in communities.
  DMs if send to a user on our Lemmy server.
  ??
  Do we have the users IP? Email? Browser fingerprint? Can we use cookies to track the user?
  
  Oh i agree. Though i think it's less likely to happen here (might not be for long though, nowhere is safe :( )
  Edit I was talking about data like IP addresses, and cookies. I feel it's fine that admins can see what you do on your account since it kind of has to be public.
- Depends on what entails privacy. What you describe could also be pointed out as transparency. Transparency is a good thing, right?
  There’s no tracking or data-mining on Lemmy, which infringe on your privacy.
  On Lemmy there’s only what you yourself willingly share with the rest of us.
  Privacy and anonymity is not the same thing.
  
  There’s no tracking or data-mining on Lemmy, which infringe on your privacy.
  Not built into the Lemmy software, no. But there's for sure data mining and tracking happening, with how open the fediverse is. If you actually think there is none of that, you don't seem to understand how the fediverse actually works. Anyone can just hook up their server to the fediverse and start harvesting your data freely if they want to.
  On Lemmy there’s only what you yourself willingly share with the rest of us.
  That's more about discipline and applies to every social media. There's no way to say "I don't want to share this" on the fediverse. Even private messages are shared.
  What you describe could also be pointed out as transparency. Transparency is a good thing, right?
  Well, Lemmy isn't the one being transparent then though. Since Lemmy hides votes from its users, but shares them with other instances.
  
  When you register on Reddit, you consent to being tracked. Possibly across the web via cookies. This is not the case with Lemmy.
  Otherwise it’s illegal. At least in the EU. You must get a users consent if you want to track them.
  Of course someone could collect data on your up/down votes and what you write, but it’s technically illegal to use the data.
  Tracking mostly happens with cookies, which is not present in Lemmy.
  “There’s no way to say I don’t want to share this”… Yes there is. Don’t hit the upvote button, if you don’t want anyone to know.
  Votes are public. They are just not exposed to everyone by default. Only admins on Lemmy. But go to Mbin and votes are public.
  
  Only admins on Lemmy
  Mods can see them too
  
  Strangely not through the default lemmy UI, but tesseract supports it
  
  On all comms or just the comm they moderate?
  
  The ones they mod
  
  “There’s no way to say I don’t want to share this”… Yes there is. Don’t hit the upvote button, if you don’t want anyone to know.
  Well yes, that's what I meant with the part before that.
  That's more about discipline and applies to every social media. There's no way to say "I don't want to share this" on the fediverse. Even private messages are shared.
  This isn't unique to Lemmy, every social media including Reddit allows you to prevent sharing something by never posting it in the first place.
  I'm saying beyond that there's nothing more you can do. So Lemmy literally doesn't do anything more there than Reddit did.
  For context, this was in response to this part of your comment (emphasis mine):
  On Lemmy there’s only what you yourself willingly share with the rest of us.
  Which sounds like you're saying Lemmy is somehow different and better than Reddit at this, which it really isn't.
  
  I'm okay with people knowing I upvote stuff on !lego@lemm.ee
  I'm not okay with Reddit forcing me to use their app to do data mining directly on my phone, and not allowing me to use a VPN (Lemmy.world has the same issue to be honest)
  
  Since Lemmy hides votes from its users, but shares them with other instances.
  That's one thing I loved when I was on kbin. You could always see upvotes and downvotes.
- Depends on your definition of privacy and threat model.
  Compared to Reddit, it's already miles better.
  
  Reddit's terms are annnoying, they own not just all the content you post but your identity that you use while on their site, really dislike how hard it is to delete all your posts and comments (deleting your account leaves them all up)
- Is there an illusion of privacy? The persistent, unprompted belief it exists isn't an illusion. It's a user-generated fantasy.

25 comments