2d ago

Keir Starmer does not believe trans women are women, No 10 says

www.bbc.com

92 comments

Can we not just have gender neutral bathrooms and changing rooms and be done with it?
"But what about MtF people going into sports?" Just put a fucking asterisk by their name on the leader boards.
Jobs a good un
- Its so tiring of people trying to patch problems with "gendered bathrooms", "train cars only for women", "women parking lots" rather than actually solving real problems. These band aids should be a temporary solutions at best but here we are - argueing about gendered bathrooms in 2025.
  The worst when people try to spin these as some sort of innovation. Especially for gendered train cars here in Japan was such a huge thing and I couldn't help but eye roll when instead of addressing perverts they just herd women into protected pens and put camera noise default on every smartphone that take 10 minutes to disable by actual criminals.
  
  train cars only for women
  Good thing nobody can actually suggest that in this day and age. Because that's a concept that makes everyone immediately go "Ooooh, how delightfully 1800s. Wait, why are we doing this, I thought we were better than that."
  ...If someone actually suggests that, have them be detained by a few chimney sweeps until the police arrives by horse carriage.
  
  pretty sure they do this in Japan?
  
  nah that's just you guys americans. This suggestion is still widely considered in most places. The problem is that it turns from a temporary patch to a "solution".
  Shopping mall next to me just added a parking floor for women only instead of hiring more security guards which here Thailand are incredibly cheap and honestly a real joy to have around. In the west people would say "it's a pointless job" but having someone maintain order and vibe of a place is much more effective and important than girl trains.
  There are just so many of these populist examples that people have their brains hijacked by. Once you start paying attention you just can't wait for AI overlords to take over cause we're really not good at this.
- A lot of women/girls would be uncomfortable with having to share a bathroom with men/boys.
  
  Same argument that was made for gay people sharing locker rooms, bigots never get new material. If you're not comfortable sharing a bathroom with someone, then, ya know, you don't have to use it.
  Why is it queer people have to suffer for bigotry? Why not just be less of a bigot?
  
  A lot of people are uncomfortable with bigots leaving reddit and joining lemmy.
  
  You put the handwashing station in an open area, visible to the hallway.
  You put floor to cieling stalls for the actual doing your business part.
  I have been to a lot of places that do this and nobody cares. It is an added level of safety that you are either in private or visible to passers by.
  
  To be totally honest: I like the current divided setup for the purely selfish reason of the men's toilet being less occupied than the women's toilet at most places with a lot of people.
  But that would mean that in average it would be a net benefit to use non divided ones, since then the empty stalls would be used.
  
  You'd have to smooth that over with the people who have problems sharing bathrooms with the opposite sex and the businesses that have to build the infrastructure.
  There are plenty of places where nobody cares, like campgrounds. But there are other places where people care a lot, like schools.
  
  I just visited a high school that does exactly this, and no one cares.
  In fact they like it better.
  
  That's great.
  Does that mean nobody cares anywhere else?
  It's also impressive that such a consensus can be reached among dozens to hundreds of students. Not a single person cares? They all like it better?
  
  There will always be somebody who doesn't like something. But you normalize things and then people adapt.
  They like it better because they feel it is more private.
  Nobody cares about washing their hands or fixing thier hair or whatever in front of others, and the appreciate that when they are doing the business part their is a completely private space.
  
  You seem to be operating under the assumption that there is any context in which your interlocutor would accept trans people being treated like people.
  
  They can always stay home
  
  Guess what? Trans women also don't feel comfortable using men's bathrooms or sharing bathrooms with men. Because trans women are women.
  
  It's the truth, not a belief.
  
  Yeah, religious people say the same things.
  
  Well unlike religion, science supports this truth. Decades of science and listening to trans people and their lived experiences.
  
  Oh, are we banning Christians from bathrooms on the basis that you disagree with them? Maybe Muslims make you uncomfortable and you don't want them near women?
  Sincerely, what is your argument here, "I don't believe you, so what you said is invalid it's a religion."? Trans women are women. I don't understand how that is a debate or why you think it's equivalent to some religion, it's an assertion of identity.
  
  Can you be more civil?
  Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. Lots of people think their beliefs are true even if they might not be. It's bigoted of you to think your beliefs are absolute fact while discrediting the beliefs of others.
  Religious people use the same tactics to persecute those they disagree with.
  
  I'm absolutely not going to tolerate intolerance. If you want to make a shitty bigoted argument, you should be prepared to be called a bigot, because that's exactly what you are.
  Your beliefs are not valid, and we don't have to protect you from criticism. The existence of trans people is not a matter of fucking faith.
  
  Some people equate facts with belief. I can't help it if you have no ability to discern the difference. If you can, then I can't help that your beliefs make you hateful and willing to dismiss things you don't like as "beliefs".
  Also...
  It's bigoted of you to think your beliefs are absolute fact while discrediting the beliefs of others.
  Pot, meet kettle? Are you not doing this by your own logic?
  Edit: Can't see your transphobic shit anymore, thank fuck. Trans women are women. Trans does not mean not. You wouldn't say "Cis women aren't women" just because "Cis" comes before "women".
  
  Wow, the mods literally banned this person for saying "That's your belief and you're entitled to it."
  If that's not mod abuse to support an agenda, I don't know what is.
  
  Maybe it's because trans women are women
  
  Well, anyone who disagrees is banned so you don't really get to see different perspectives.
  I guess it's all intentional. You don't want people discussing it because in your head the discussion is already done and you don't want anyone to disagree with a conclusion that you like. Pretty scummy, but that's to be expected.
  
  What do you think a trans woman is, if not a woman?
  
  Anyone who says they're not a woman is banned so you're never going to see people who contradict the trans agenda on these forums.
  
  There is no point debating with people whose views exist on the same side as the nazis currently occupying the US.
  Because trans women are women.
  
  So anyone who thinks trans women aren't the same as normal women are nazis?
  
  Anyone who describes this as "trans" vs "normal" could do with reflecting a bit more before expecting others to engage with their views.
  
  It depends on who the others are and you're assuming I care if people engage with my views.
  I fully expect people like you to plug your ears and try to censor any information you don't like, regardless of its veracity.
  
  Your comment was removed for endorsing transphobia, now you're temp banned for repeating it.
  
  That's weird cuz most of them do it at home.
  
  Not with strangers and not at the same time.
  
  Are you implying that in public restrooms people share the same stall?
  Also the strangers thing ain't exactly solved by having one gender bathroom is it? So that seems like a moot point to me.
  
  No, they share the same room.
  I'm not trying to justify their reasons, so there's not much of a point in trying to argue with me.
  If you think women have no reason to be afraid or uncomfortable sharing bathrooms with men, that's fine. A significant portion of them will disagree with you, though. If you are unsure of or question their reasoning, you'd be better off communicating with them since I do not share their sentiment.
  Edit: I just got a reply from RedSeries saying trans women are afraid to share bathrooms with men. Perhaps you can discuss with she/her about the merits on why.
  
  In the scenario I described to you trans people are much more comfortable than have 2 sex bathrooms.
  A single sex bathroom means there is no choice that need to be made. They do not have to present as anything, nor be judged as anything. It is simply a person in a public room, and a private room for the private time.
  It also means (as I described it) the sharing of the hand washing mirror facilities are barely different than being in the hallway. Do people share hallways? Of course. So this open to the public space adds a level of protection.
  Then for the private space it is single use. One person.
  I feel like I am having a hard time getting this across, and I don't know why.
  
  I feel like I am having a hard time getting this across, and I don't know why.
  Because they're just moving the goalposts until you "slip" and say something that confirms their biases against you. Being "right" is never the goal.

92 comments