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So are terrorists supposed to be only of adult male?
ah yes, the 7200 terrorists, including hundreds of child terrorists. the two and a half 9/11 deaths worth of terrorists
i'm sure most of those are legitimate imprisonments that aren't at all human rights violations, despite many of those people all not having any charges associated with their arrests. i'm sure the vastly unequal treatment of palestinians vs israelis that includes an indefinite time in captivity facing physical abuse and strip searches along with things like public and private gatherings of 10 or more people being illegal for specifically palestinians isn't anything to worry about
Since taking hostages is a war crime, the whole “prisoners” thing is an extremely thin veil to circumvent those laws.
Extremely thin, because they use administrative detention and military courts with “secret” evidence for the few that are lucky to see a court in the first place.
Not to mention the litany of human rights violations that occurs in the prisons themselves.
Even POWs are to be treated better than the
administrative detaineeshostages according to the Geneva Convention on Prisoners of War.Considering the butchering, rape, and hostages taken on October 7th and then the mistreatment of Israeli hostages in the past and present, the detention of people caught stabbing, throwing rocks, or supporting terrorist activity is warranted.
Considering that this is a population capable of butchering the equivalent of 32x 9/11 deaths (adjusting for Israeli population), and that you're dealing with a terrorist organization known for dexapiating babies and sending it's own children with bombs strapped to their bodies, it might be a good idea to make sure your detainees don't have anything under their clothes...
So you're saying that israel doesn't have any right to protect their own people? I think you forgot to read the fact that these "childrens" must've done something to be put into prison or detention, either because they did some crime against israeli or by illegally staying in israel. Do you think they're too stupid to purposely want to be hated by the whole world by jailing innocent childrens??
So you're saying that israel doesn't have any right to protect their own people?
Lol, this is hilarious when you consider Israel and the western world directly funded Hamas and intentionally caused his rise to power. Israel has been causing the immense suffering of Palestinians as well as muslims who are Israeli (who are second-class citizens and treated as subhuman) for decades, but they never got the "right" to defend themselves, they couldn't defend themselves even if they wanted because they would get obliterated by a vastly superior military might. A radical reactionary government is an obvious response to a greater power oppressing them, genocidal maniacs create genocidal maniacs. Israel doesn't give a shit about its citizens nor "self-defense", their government wants an excuse to genocide & subjugate peoples they don't like and take their land. It's the modern world, you can find all the evidence like videos you want of the Israeli military blatantly committing war crimes and executing unarmed Palestinians like animals, that is not self-defense.
I think you forgot to read the fact that these "childrens" must've done something to be put into prison or detention, either because they did some crime against israeli
Actually no, I'm clearly the one that did the reading here because if you actually knew anything about the detention of Palestinians & other groups in Palestine, you would know that the concentration camps they're put in don't require any actual crimes to be committed for them to be held captive there, and there are thousands in those camps who aren't charged with any crime at all and who weren't arrested for a crime.
or by illegally staying in israel.
You mean the non-Israeli land that Israel is illegally occupying?
Do you think they're too stupid to purposely want to be hated by the whole world by jailing innocent childrens??
You think other countries give a shit about crimes against humanity? They're perfectly willing to turn a blind eye if it's from a country they support, Germany is too afraid of seeming anti-semitic to tolerate any criticism of Israel and Israel is too strategically and ideologically important to the US (and mang others) for the US to actually take a real stance against them. Many Europeans are also fiercly anti-muslim, spurred from anti-immigrant sentiment due to a lot of 3rd worlders fleeing to Europe. And most of the other countries that are protesting their crimes against humanity don't exactly affect Israel that much anyways, they rely mostly on countries like the US, China, Germany, etc. Many Israel-aligned countries committed and still commit war crimes all the time, and they don't give a shit when others do it (like Vietnam when first France and then the US completely fucked up Vietnam and its environment all starting from wanting to maintain imperial holdings and then wanting to destroy the government most people supported, and the UK and rest of the NATO-aligned world supported this injustice, only Sweden protested but it didn't change much), they only sometimes pretend to care when it's politically or strategically beneficial.
A little horrors beyond human comprehension won't affect relations with strongly allied or even in some cases separately-aligned nations much – remember that most of the white world, including the UK and US, was fine with or mostly apathetic towards the persecution of Jews (often turning away Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany when the ethnic cleansing was starting) until the people persecuting Jews attacked them or their allies. They didn't take action because it would threaten their international relations. Plus look, the US unjustly jails people constantly at a much higher rate than the rest of the world including both the "civilized" and "uncivilized" countries, and for an unreasonably long duration for a lot of crimes many of which shouldn't even be crimes, but it's not like that is something the rest of the world actually cares about enough to do anything about.
Which land does israel occupies actually? I mean prior to this war. Gaza? Or the West Bank? Each have their own local authority and they conduct their own election (supposedly, but none was held for such a long time because of their own despute), they have their own constitution, a president and a prime minister. So can you tell me which part are being occupied?
How much do you see israel as a demon, that you cannot think of them as people who are trying to survive? I don't know where you live, but what would you do if some of your neighbour keep trying to kill one of your family? Knowing that they once brought the whole neighbourhood to attack your home. Should you just let them do as they please?
As rule of war, israel should claim all the land of palestine, from the river to the sea, because they won the war. But they actually gave back gaza and the west bank to the palestinian, and let them have their own government. What more do you expect them to do?
I think you forgot to read the fact that these “children” must’ve done something to be put in prison or detention, either because they did some crime against israeli or by illegally staying in israel. Do you think they’re too stupid to purposely want to be hated by the whole world by jailing innocent childrens?
Bless your heart.
You think they give two shits about me and you hating them? They barely care what the US thinks of them, as long as the US remains a useful idiot that’ll veto any chance at accountability.
Netanyahu is on the record of calling the US a puppet:
I know what America is […]America is a thing you can move very easily, move it in the right direction. They won’t get in the way.
Keep fighting the good fight.
Netanyahu is one person. If you think that a whole organization from top to bottom left and right are being complicit in jailing innocent civilians. You don't truly understand the complexity of human nature.
You should read up on what the OG Nazis got up to. Or the Japanese at around the same time. Or how Canada treated native children from like before it was a county until about 30 years ago. Or how China treats Tibetan kids or Muslims. Raw chocolate, diamond, emerald suppliers and their "employees". US border patrol.
You must think really low of everyone here to try arguing that humans are too good to perform evils on an organizational level, because this is just scratching the surface of what groups of our species is capable of.
are we suppose to take the label "terrorist" serious when it comes to the israelis? just because israel labels someone a terrorist it doesn't make it true.
but i know your thought process. it is based on the false premisse that israel is not a terrorist state.
if israel arrests you on the charges of terrorism it doesn't make you a terrorist. it makes you an enemy to a "terrorist state". you can use terror and be a terrorist when fighting israel, but just because you get arrested by idf, it doesn't automatically makes you a terrorist, imho.
Define terrorist.
uses terror to achieve political goal.
Okay, so how can you relate that definition with what both sides are doing? I mean from a non-bias perspective.
clearly, we should boycott, ~~de-invest ~~ Divestment and sanction israel. just like we do with hamas and the pa.
And we should condemn hamas for the evil things they've done.
everyday, in fact international security agencies should do more to help. in fact greater israel should be a international nation new home of the united nations. the us should invade to establish a cease fire until this is established. it is the only way to stop the blood shed. from both sides. after all israeli settlers can't be left without protection until the law is the same for all greater israel citizens.
Both sides should be guaranteed safety from any threats before we can talk about peace.
that is why i said invaded by the united states and not the un. i think us can guarantee israeli safety. but immediate sacrifices must be made, like having to move house for a while, until the peace process is finished. it could work. it would solve a lot of problems. but i know this is pure unfiltered hopism.
edit: we'll do like this. the us takes control of israel, the un control of gaza and the west bank. settlers would be under united states protection until the peace process is finished.
Israel is not a threat to palestine if hamas or any other palestinian stop threatening the israeli. They did accepted the UN plan to coexist side by side at first, something the arab world rejected by jointly attacking israel. Now they're begging to revert to the original plan after israel emerged victorious over them. It is not for us as outsiders to decide, but for among them to find a solution.
Some guy gets his house burned down. Its terrible, so they find him a new home: its a room in your house. New roommate is intent on getting you to move out so he can take the whole house. He makes it clear that the two of you can never be equals, and that god wants him to have the house. It starts with petty psychological shit but its clear he’s trying to start a confrontation. You retaliate, he retaliates, it becomes a mess of you guys slinging shit. At the end of the day, you were minding your own business, who can blame you for defending yourself. You’ve both done awful shit but you were doing your own thing until this guy came along and declared himself owner of your house.
Thats how I look at isreal/palestine. Hamas is awful. But when you oppress millions of people you can’t be that surprised when some of them become ruthless maniacs hellbent on getting out from under your rule. Just put yourself in Palestinian’s shoes and ask yourself if you’d be alright with it.
Al Queda was terrible too, but we brought it upon ourselves invading the middle east. You can’t crush people under an iron fist and expect them to be cool with it.
I think you got your history messed up. The roommate has always been there and the landlord at that time intended for both of you to live side by side, but you refused, and brought your neighbours to attack your roommate but your roomate emerged victorious. Your neighbour then took part of your room before your roommate took them back. Some times later, your roommate gave it back to you, but you keep threatening to eliminate your roommate. So your roommate had no choice but to prevent you from killing them.
If you see history as it is, you'll get a new perspective on how events unfold. Undeniably hamas is a terrorists organization who hides behind innocent civilians, and israel is exaggerated in their response, but I can see from their point of view because I see history as it is. This is a war between israel and hamas, and like any other war, unfortunately there are casualties among the civilians (which is very difficult to prevent as long as hamas hides behind them).
Sure, all religious groups in the area have had ties and claims to Jerusalem for Millenia, but the actual nation of Israel was founded in 1948.
If you found a nation on a contested holy site and try to push all the other religious groups out, you will have a huge amount of radical and violent resistance, i’m not really going to support you either.
If the situation was reversed, and the middle east was dominated by jews instead or muslims, and Israel was instead a (somewhat) recently-founded muslim nation surrounded by jewish ones, I wouldn’t feel too bad for the muslim nation that decided to set up shop there and make it your holy capital or something.
Its awful, and the whole religious side of things makes this a never-ending war with no real “moral victor”, but its just hard for me to pretend I don’t see the ridiculousness in all of this. A radical militant group kills/kidnaps 2000 isrealis and the response is to kill 15,000+ palestinians with not just tacit approval but full-blown military support from the largest world powers. We are not even talking about “an eye for an eye making the whole world blind”, we’re talking about trading an eye for a whole human body.
Should Israel have responded? Absolutely. I’m not going to say it should have even been a peaceful response. But what’s happening now is a clear over-correction, a clear attempt to both weaken the Palestinian state as a whole and the Palestinian people themselves. It will breed more violence, and you will inadvertently create groups more radical than hamas, who will point to this and say “they did not go far enough”. The Palestinian people need to reject hamas on their own, and this isn’t going to cause that.
And palestine was never a nation before 1988.
How do you kill cancer cells? By ruining your own body with strong drugs. You got weakened immune system and become sterilized (cannot produce offsprings). That's how dangerous hamas and it's ideology is to israel's existence.
Do you maybe think that your shitty analogy to cancer is not the best way to decide what to do with people? Are you saying we should sterilize Palestinians? What the fuck, why do I even bother…
Are you stupid or what? The analogy meant to say that there are unintended consequences for every action. Curing cancer have unintended effect as such.
So, as soon as someone shows joy that their daughter who was about to be locked away for 10 years for throwing stones at an IDF soldier, they must be a terrorist?
Just how sure are you that they were just throwing stones?
If you define basically everything palestinians do as "terrorism", you'll have the prisons filled with "terrorists" in no time.
So how do you define "terrorism" exactly?
I don't define it as civil/non-violent defiance against an occupying power. Or being happy that a family member is released from prison.
Ehm, civil-non-violent, eh? One of the released women is Amani Hashim (sp?) 37 y.o. from the West Bank who used her car to ram an Israeli soldier on a check point, seriously injuring him, and then waved a knife on others, while shouting religious slogans... Got convicted and sentenced to 10 years in prison.
I can imagine what would have happened, if that checkpoint wouldn't be there...
https://www.verdicts.co.il/ע-פ-6533-18-אמאני-חשים-נגד-מדינת-ישראל-24-02-2020/
You do know what kind of ethnic cleansing and illegal settlement the IDF is currently carrying out in the west bank? Whah kind of resistance do you expect?
Who is being occupied? Israel disengaged from gaza since 2005. Since hamas won the election, they kept threatening israel's existence, so how do you suggest israel should respond with such threat?
Israel is occupying Palestine (including Gaza and the West Bank). They control water, electricity and imports into Gaza and you claim they "disengaged"?
Also: There are Palestinians in Israel. They don't have the same rights that non-jewish people living there do. I.e. They get locked away when showing joy that their family members can leave prisons for ridiculous charges.
Damn, how far fetched are you from reality? The West Bank are controlled by the Palestine Authority and Gaza by Hamas. Since 2005. Read it up. Israel is the one supplying water, electricity and oil to these two area because they're not capable to produce them on their own. Let me ask you. If it were you, would you give your enemy the luxury of all of those? Israel did. And they stopped giving more to gaza after they were threaten by hamas. Justified or not?
Again, what are your sources for these claim? Arabs in Israel does have rights as any Israeli as long they are a citizen. They can vote, they can enter politics, or do any kind of jobs. There are even arab soldiers in the IDF! Palestinian on the other hand are treated like how any country would treats foreign citizens. Of course they won't be let freely to do what they want in a sovereign country. You have to know the difference between an arab israeli and a palestine. And you have to think of Israel as a country. They're controlling the border? Why shouldn't they control their own border?
Yes, women and adult-sized children are all just angels incapable of committing crimes or harming anyone.
That you get down voted for this simple fact is really saying a lot about the Kool-aid consumption of some "Israel critics".
If they're terrorists why are you holding them in "administrative detention" indefinitely instead of charging them with crime?
See, that would be a good point to make in a meme. Saying they can't be terrorists (or some other kind of lawful prisoner) because they're teenagers or women however is not a good point.
edit: lol @downvotes
simple fact
You misspelled sea-lioning.
Dog whistling too
Everything these people say is literally out of the Hasbara handbook. Full of bad faith lies meant to hide the power imbalance and true nature of Israel's occupation of the Palestinians. They're all disgusting.
Lemmy is full of basement dwelling, terrorist loving, jew hating tankies that consider this issue pure black and white with Israel as total evil oppressing "poor" Palestinians since eternity.
The good news is that there's only 2 thousand or so of them here posting, commenting and agreeing with each other in their echo chamber, while downvoting all disagreeing opinions.
The bad news is it's making me consider going back to Reddit again... even though I fucking hate Reddit since that API debacle.
Go back to r/europe, or worldnews there. They are super pro Israel. No tankies or khamas there.
Nah, Truth Social would suit them better.
They're afraid of a simple question.