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I mean, it's not very cool if the good people living here have to suffer for it. Wishing for collapse isn't progressive or leftist - it's just defeatist.
Wishing for the collapse of the current system is very leftist. In fact, you objectively can't be considered leftist if you support anything about the imperialist, colonialist, capitalist US system. There are zero redeeming features about our nation. It should die.
I'd prefer gradual reform over collapse. Less shocking to our culture/economy that way I think.
Yeah well gradual reform is right-wing liberal propaganda that makes marginalized groups suffer even more for our own privilege. It doesn't work.
Just to be clear if you had a magic button that would result in guaranteed gradual reform if you pressed it. And not pressing it would result in collapse.
You would press the button, right?
I would kill the person who was forcing me to push such an absurd button. I'd celebrate the death of any nation that supported the button's existence
How do you feel about democracies? Like say it post collapse and revolution. You ended up on top. Would you create a democracy?
This may come as an absolute shock, but this is a post gleefully celebrating the idea of the downfall of a genocidal regime
If you want to discuss anarchist theory, there are much better forums for that than 196. Too many libs here.
So you don't feel safe answering my question. I won't force an answer.
I don't think this is the right place, no
There are liberals and even overt racists present in this thread
Liberals themselves have told me:
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We are a "first past the post" electoral system. That alone should disillusion you of hope for any change through voting.
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Biden is "the most progressive president we've ever had." This is probably sadly true, which again shows that anyone who cares about marginalized groups should hope for the collapse of such an outrageously atrocious system.
Collapse is best. We should work towards collapse.
Edit: Autocorrect sucks donkey ass
i don't think the left wing is best positioned to take power if there was a collapse
i think a collapse would bring the us significantly more right wing
It's never how it works. See, we get a century or so of dictatorships, with each new guy overthrowing the previous and promising to be better, and failing to be.
Somewhere along the line (because for some reason we won't do this in advance) intellectuals will in secret start developing some rules for a public-run government (democracy or sortition are popular), but no political leader or revolutionary leader will be actually willing to try them (because they like the power), until absolutely everyone is tired of the wars and coups because absolutely everyone has close friends and relatives they had to put into the cold ground.
And then the new Communist / Socialist / Anarchist / Whatever United States will rise, since the point is to be able to change the rules without someone shooting someone else.
Which is what happens when either the legislature, executive or courts collapse into corruption and seize power. The four boxes of liberty are a warning the first three (soapbox, ballot box, jury box) are all that keep the ammunition box closed and unused.
Yeah we're a nation of shit people overall. All the more reason collapse is best overall. I'm willing to suffer and die if it means Palestinians and immigrants can be spared
but if the right wing took power of america's arsenal i think more Palestinians and immigrants would die
Better make sure you support the lefties then if you don’t want a nazi government. Liberals have historically proven themselves to support nazis over leftists during a revolution, I hope you will do differently if you actually believe what you say.
Let's give the land back to the Native Americans then! Surely they can't do worse than our inherently corrupt, atrocious system, right?
Certainly if we are "first past the post" and our biggest hope for change and "most progressive" president is a bigoted genocidaire, we're better with them in charge, agreed?
certainly sir right you are
but, just one more thing
i don't think a group of people that the state has spent centuries stamping out are in a position to successfully hold together a country as wide-spread and diverse as the united states, so i feel like just handing it over with no other intervention is as good as a free for all, and i think that just leads to a right wing takeover
...ah. here it is.
That Biden part is a strawman
I’ve seen a lot of libs say that on lemmy.
You haven't seen liberal Democrats stating that Biden is the most progressive president we've ever had? It's a very common sentiment in liberal spaces like reddit, 4chan, and lemmy.world
Give an example in a top 5% subreddit.
I don't use reddit. Check any news or political community on lemmy.world, and you're sure to find it
The only results I get are your words plus 1 other. Please provide a link to your search results.
I don't know what to tell you. I didn't save links, and I'm not going to subject myself to the toxic news and politics communities on .world. I've seen everything of those places I need to see.
If you visit them long enough, you'll definitely see users calling Biden "the most progressive president we've had," often with lots of links that ... don't exactly support their thesis
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Wishing for the collapse of the current system is very leftist
And see the imperialist, colonialist, capitalist China and Russia rise to wreck the world as they see fit just like how USA do? How very leftist of you.
How is it different when the USA does it?
A true anti-fascist opposes the acts, not the nation.
Nationalism is fascism.
No different, Just like hiding behind leftist agenda while pushing your anti-us one is no different than the right-wing trying to hide their fascism while pretend to do it for the people. Also you get someone who's not even trying to hide their intention if US collapse.
I've always been quite open about supporting the downfall of genocidal regimes, including the US
A leftist US citizen has no control over the Chinese or Russian government. Excusing your own country’s crimes because other countries do it as well is a wild stance and a disingenuous attempt to distract people from taking action. You are responsible for your own government.
"Wishing for the collapse of the current system is very leftist." - 16 upvotes, 0 downvotes.
And y'all wonder why people don't take the left seriously.
Hi friend, you seem to be* confused. Blahaj has downvotes disabled, so the count is almost always going to be zero. The only downvotes you may potentially see come from your own server.
I know in this case you might be upset that this person has 0 downvotes, but the reason Blahaj has them disabled is because bigots often use them to shutdown, and try and hide, trans people's comments and posts. Even when they are not saying anything controversial.
"The reason people support genocide, fascism, and capitalism is because of posts on 196" -You
The right was never going to support anti-fascism regardless of what the left does or says.
Lemmy's gonna lemmy
Worked out great for the KPD in 1930s Germany...
Yeah. And asinine.
“Millions of people will suffer because capitalists! uwu ✌️✌️🌈⭐️🤣🤣🤣🤣”
And op is saying some shit about just giving governing to natives, but those would be the first people to suffer hard in a collapse. They just want people to hurt.