Harassment campaign from a pawb.social user
Harassment campaign from a pawb.social user
Drag is trans, and uses person-independent neopronouns. These can be confusing for some people. But drag is patient, and with the vast majority of people is not pushy with drag's pronouns at all. In return, the vast majority of people tend to take no issue with drag. However, some people decide to invent a problem because they see drag using drag's pronouns, and it makes them angry.
Drag has a problem with one of these people, a pawb.social user called Draconic_NEO. Drag would normally just send a report, and drag is in the process of doing that, but the level of harassment has elevated to abuse of mod powers, and drag feels the need to inform the pawb.social admins of this user, as well as giving full context to the issue.
A week ago, drag created a thread on the db0 instance regarding a wrongful ban. Here is the context of drag's comments which lead to the ban:
Drag has used HTML to restore the deleted comments in the thread to save you time checking the modlog. As you can see, someone insults drag for drag's style of talking, and drag merely explains what is going on. Some people are unfamiliar with first person neopronouns, and drag patiently explains. The first removed comment is actually drag answering a direct question from another user. A moderator of the community decided that a trans person explaining their pronouns is rulebreaking behaviour, and drag posted about it on db0's "power tripping bastards" community. Drag didn't choose the name of that community, it's just the only place to complain about bad mod decisions.
Here is Draconic_NEO's take on the original ban:
Please understand that drag did not pivot the conversation to dragself, or display any aggression in the thread. Someone insulted drag for using neopronouns, and drag patiently explained. Draconic_NEO is, in this comment, inventing a narrative that a trans person's pronouns are an attack on others for the sake of attention-seeking. This is a transphobic cliche. The complaint that drag's use of neopronouns somehow makes drag similar to some troll is... nonsense? Drag doesn't get it, but it seems to be a core part of Draconic_NEO's argument that someone else was apparently a neopronoun user in the past, and now everyone else has a license to hate neopronoun users.
And here is Draconic_NEO in the same thread, attacking the entire concept of nounself pronouns. Here are some resources on nounself pronouns, which are an established part of queer culture and what drag's pronouns would probably fall under:
https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Nounself_pronouns
https://pronoun.fandom.com/wiki/Nounself_Pronouns
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/nounself-pronoun
https://edition.cnn.com/us/neopronouns-explained-xe-xyr-wellness-cec/index.html
For someone who uses the nounself pronoun “leaf,” that may look like: “I hope leaf knows how proud we are that leaf is getting to know leafself better!” or “Leaf arrived at the coffee shop before me; I was mortified to have been late to meet leaf.”
As you can see, nounself pronouns are prominent enough in the queer culture to be referenced on CNN and even dictionary.com. Attacks on the idea of nounself pronouns are, in a word, transphobic.
Drag will stop posting excerpts from the thread here, because the reason this post isn't just a report, is that drag can't report all of Draconic_NEO's harassment.
All four of these communities are moderated by Draconic_NEO, with nobody above them but the admins to tell: Drag has never posted or commented on or even seen these communities before. Drag didn't know they existed. Lemmy UI doesn't even have a button to do that. You have to manually make an HTTP request yourself in order to do it. This took effort, this took work. And the only possible reason to do it, is to create a record across all of Lemmy of a single user's grievances that anyone will see when they search that particular user.
And it's already happened. People look at modlogs, and they trust moderaters. The barrier to entry to becoming moderator of a dozen no-name communities is zero, but the authority of being able to create a permanent record on which to tell whatever lies you like and be believed by many people, is powerful. And drag can't report these modlog decisions to the admins. Drag can't reason with somebody who has a basic hostility towards trans people who use nounself pronouns, and who invents stories about imagined violence by trans people.
Transphobia is against the rules on pawb.social. Harassment is against the rules. Spreading misinformation is against the rules. Drag wants all of this to stop, please.
Hi hey, Draconic NEO here. I stand behind my decision to ban you from these communities for the trolling and hostility I watched you commit in-front of me against @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world before the thread was locked. Keep in mind that your record goes back further than the bans I gave you, and isn't exactly stunning.
You're also not exactly in the right here considering, your most recent history includes telling trans people they should kill right wingers before killing themselves, encouraging both violence and suicide. You being banned from 4 communities for atrocious behavior reminiscent of one of the worst trolls on all of Lemmy is by far not the most incriminating embarrassing thing in your modlog, which I'm sure will a gift that keeps on giving if things continue at the pace they are headed.
The ironic thing is that you have accused me of harassing you by banning you, however this post could indeed be considered harassment towards me, it's an attempt to incite ill will and hostility towards me for banning you from communities I moderate due to witnessing your bad behavior first-hand. Now I have thick tough scales so this doesn't really hurt or bother me, but it does reinforce my decision to ban you, especially for the reasons I did. I think many people who look at your post and modlog history will agree, especially if you continue to give us gold nuggets like this.
What do you guys think? Ignoring the fact that preemptive bans might be controversial, how does this individual's behavior strike you? Doesn't seem particularly good faith to me.
@crashdoom@pawb.social @natebluehooves@pawb.social @itsOasus@pawb.social @Spitfire@pawb.social @atomicpeach@pawb.social @southernwolf@pawb.social @Doridian@pawb.social
I need you guys' opinions on this, since you are admins that makes it more official. Ignoring the controversy surrounding preemptive bans (I'll do some investigation on that), do you think the behavior exhibited by this person in their modlog is indicative of a troll account, and do you guys think it would be considered harassment to ban them (silly question I know). Maybe I've said things in a way that could come off as offensive to some people, if I did I deeply apologize I may not always be clear on what I'm trying to say and I never put people down for their gender identity. Sometimes articulation can be hard for me.
Also I'm curious would you consider a public post about a person like this to be harassment against that person? I mean they could've sent a DM to you, or an email but instead they decided to take it public. Which could be interpreted to have been done in the hopes that other people would harass me for my decision to ban them from those communities.
(I meant to post this earlier but it seems there was an error (Toastify is Awesome) and I didn't see that until after I went back to the Tab, so uh info here may be a bit outdated because it came before there were other replies added.
I'm going to get the popcorn and see how many alts get banned along with this tumor. They're downvoting your and everyone else's posts here.
And that's aside from them ducking everything you've explained.
I think you know my answer to your question, but just in case: you were 100% in the right and even if this person is totally serious about this whole Dragon Fucker thing, and I am not convinced of that, they are being unreasonable about it to the point of it being tantamount to trolling.
Or just literally trolling in the case where they were harassing me.
Dumbass literally decided to create an alt and community harassing me and pinging me on all my accounts even Mastodon. WTF?
Honestly, if they're sending you death threats that signals that all sense of good faith goes out the window. Looks like a kid that thinks they can manufacture controversy to "cancel" someone.
I think you should ban them from all spaces you can, block them and try to spend the rest of the day relaxing and trying to get it out your head.
My condolences to you for having to go through all this nonsense.
I think I might invite my sister to go camping tomorrow and not bring Lemmy, Mastodon, or Email with me. Hopefully it'll be dealt with by then.
Do you stand by your statement that trans people shouldn't use nounself pronouns?
Do you stand by your statement that when people decide to make unprovoked insults against drag for using neopronouns, that is drag changing the subject?
Drag still has not complained, at all, about you not using drag's pronouns. Drag's post here is concerned with your statements against all nounself using trans people, your perception that trans people's existence is an attack on others, and your harassment of drag by banning drag from random communities drag has never visited.
Drag is curious why you didn't say anything about your own actions in your comment, and just changed the subject to your perceived wrongdoing by drag. Do statements against thousands of trans people's pronouns become okay when you have a story to tell about one single trans person doing a bad thing? You justified attacks on drag by pointing at this Drone Rights person, and now you're justifying attacks on others by pointing at your stories about drag. Is that your opinion; that no trans person should do anything you don't like if a bad trans person did it? That you're allowed to harass drag for the actions of others?
Do you stand by your statement that trans people shouldn’t use nounself pronouns?
Now I know you are not acting in good faith because I never said that. But let's break down why you are banned piece by piece so there's zero ambiguity.
"DroneRights 2.0" - Gives people a frame of reference to understand what it looks like
"trolling" - Describes the nature of the behavior you've exhibited over the past few days
"accusations of transphobia" - You have regularly been accusing people of being transphobic for calling you out on bad behavior, and for moderative actions.
"obscene NSFW username" - Do I need to explain why "Dragonfucker" is an NSFW username?
Do you stand by your statement that when people decide to make unprovoked insults against drag for using neopronouns, that is drag changing the subject?
Wow the sealioning and bad faith accusations just keep on coming. You were called a troll because your behavior indicates that of a troll, the language you use is a factor but it is only one of many factors. The other factors were the trolling and the harassment towards others, which you clearly haven't stopped, you're doing it right now. Then of course there's your more recent incursions in the trans communities, which I already addressed on !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com and you think the main complaint against you is pronouns? This is literally what DroneRights did, they would start shit and harass other people then claim peopel who called them out were being transphobic, it's what you're doing right now. Just in a less direct and more sealioning way.
Drag still has not complained, at all, about you not using drag’s pronouns. Drag’s post here is concerned with your statements against all nounself using trans people, your perception that trans people’s existence is an attack on others, and your harassment of drag by banning drag from random communities drag has never visited.
I've said that nounself pronouns are difficult and unintuitive for a lot of people, which they are, I am not shaming people for using them. Many people who do use them also use other pronouns or allow people to use their name because it is hard for some people, especially people with speech and language problems. Now you don't want to use other pronouns, but also your username is extremely NSFW, which makes it not an option especially in places where it would be inapropriate, and you've already expressed discontent about nicknames so you're basically asking people to not to refer to you at all.
Drag is curious why you didn’t say anything about your own actions in your comment, and just changed the subject to your perceived wrongdoing by drag. Do statements against thousands of trans people’s pronouns become okay when you have a story to tell about one single trans person doing a bad thing? You justified attacks on drag by pointing at this Drone Rights person, and now you’re justifying attacks on others by pointing at your stories about drag. Is that your opinion; that no trans person should do anything you don’t like if a bad trans person did it? That you’re allowed to harass drag for the actions of others?
aaand can't stop sealioning.
I'm not an admin, nor a moderator, so you can take this with a grain of salt. However, I have seen you around various communities, and you spend a not-insignificant amount of time explaining your neopronouns, and arguing with people about them, and generally being, it seems to me, somewhat intentionally obtuse about the fact that referring to yourself by a neopronoun is confusing for people reading your posts, and comes across as trying to draw attention to yourself. You appear, from my perspective, to be baiting these comments, and then getting offended when they inevitably come.
You've been banned from a lot of communities, as a quick scan of your post history reveals, because you seem to post these sort of rants quite frequently.
The fact that you're using a very NSFW username for non-NSFW purposes is not doing you any favors, either, as Draconic_NEO also pointed out.
I don't have a horse in this race, but maybe you should consider that if this many people from different instances, communities, etc. are all having the same problem with you, maybe the way you're presenting yourself and acting in response to pushback is at least a significant part of the problem.
What alternative do you think drag should go with? Never explaining drag's neopronouns again?
I think you should consider that if you're getting pre-emptively banned from that many communities, the problem isn't that people are harassing you, the problem is that you're acting in such a way that makes people not want to interact with you. From there, I think you should decide for yourself whether you want to adjust your behavior to be more in line with social expectations, but you should also understand that if you choose not to, a significant percentage of people will continue to not want to interact with you as a result. That's all I'm going to say on the topic.
Being radically different from most people is not and can not ever be considered bait. Respect and dignity are the standard, and this rider isn't going out of drag's way to invite discussion, drag is simply responding when questioned. Ignoring is rude too. All identities are good-faith identities unless they are actively attacking someone else.
You seem to show up only when dragonfucker@lemmy.nz is being responded to critically. You're acting in such a way that many consider objectionable, and the fact that they don't want to interact with you as a result is not harassment. (That's the collective 'you', since the two of you seem to be associated with one another.) You seem to go out of your way to find offense, and I'm frankly done with this. I've said all I'm going to say on the topic.
Sock puppets gonna sock puppet
Some of us here (myselves included, hence why I need to use other pronouns to refer to you) use pronoun sets containing this or very-similar neopronouns. As you've admitted, person-independent pronouns can be very confusing, especially when others in the same community or conversation also use those pronouns. I don't believe Draconic NEO is attacking you by comparing your person-independent nounself pronouns to nicknames; that is how you are using them, and it's disruptive and confusing for those who use them as pronouns. Normally, we could at least use names or alternative pronoun sets where this becomes a problem, but your username is sexually suggestive (probably why Draconic NEO mentioned it in the ban reasons) and you haven't been willing to offer any alternative. I can only speculate on why you're doing this.
I haven't communicated with you before, but I'm in two of the communities you listed here and comment occasionally in them. From past experience, I believe Draconic NEO acts in good faith to accommodate as many folks as possible, but your unwillingness to consider others' needs and repeated disruption of ongoing discussions are what prompted your bans. Transphobia and harassment have nothing to do with this.
Drag can see why you're confused. You must have a Lemmy client that doesn't support display names. Drag's display name is Dragon Rider. Drag is happy to be called by that name, and nobody has ever expressed a problem with it before. Drag wasn't calling Draconic NEO's confusion transphobic, only their direct speech against the entire concept of nounself pronouns. And drag has never complained about Draconic NEO's disuse of drag's pronouns, and will continue not to. The issue isn't use or disuse of pronouns, the issue is treating the existence of drag's pronouns as an attack, and engaging in retaliatory harassment.
people know what your display name is, people also still know what your username is because that's how it shows up in mentions and links @dragonfucker@lemmy.nz https://pawb.social/u/dragonfucker@lemmy.nz <--- See what I mean?
Even if you set a display name people will still judge you based on that username, and it is still a reflection on you. Most usernames are innocuous which makes people just ignore or not see them, but usernames like yours stick out like a sore thumb and make you look sus, which the behavior (trolling, harassment, bad faith accusations, sealioning) just confirms.I had to read this multiple times to make sure whether you were referring to me, yourself, or someone else. That's the problem. Multiple dragons are likely to want to use those pronouns in a place like c/Dragons wouldn't you think? The way you're using them is mutually-incompatible with the way everyone else uses them for themselves.
Also your display name is euphemistic. You already know it is because you put it in quotes.
You are quite clearly harassing them with this post, and are being especially toxic with the community you set up
Drag didn't make that community. Look at this post: https://discuss.online/post/13304408?scrollToComments=true
Honest question, do you or do you not enjoy dragon dick?
Why would someone whose username is dragonfucker complain about anybody liking dragon dick? Drag likes dragon dick and doesn't have a problem with anybody who does. That's clearly some kind of non-dragon-fucking person. Whoever they are, they suck. Love is love and loving dragons is okay. Drag doesn't have a problem with sucking any kind of cock, as long as it's consensual.
Lol, ok it's obvious you're trolling at this point. Telling people to kill themselves isn't cool though. Time to stop with the harassment, it's not helping anybody.
