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Seems like a lot of effort spent maligning a group of people to the left of the problem population.
Liberals are definitely part of the problem population
You are part of the problem. Be better, please. Leftism cannot grow with people like you in it.
Liberals aren't leftists
Are you a liberal?
libs are not to the left of anything https://orgrad.wordpress.com/articles/liberalism-the-two-faced-tyranny-of-wealth/
this is incorrect as long as a group is more conservative than them. I'm sorry but you're wrong.
it feels good to be morally superior to people, and you've chosen the liberals. what you want is to point at them, cross your arms, frown and make sure everyone knows how upset you are. Which doesn't solve any problems. For someone who calls themself a progressive, your solution is awfully conservative, wouldn't you say? Be better. Stop complaining and do something, you twit. Nobody cares who you feel superior to.
First sentence from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism :
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property and equality before the law.
Second paragraph from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property :
Private property is foundational to capitalism, an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. As a legal concept, private property is defined and enforced by a country's political system.
This is in stark contrast to the first sentence from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism :
Socialism is an economic and political philosophy encompassing diverse economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership.
What you call “liberal” and what you call “conservative” are both liberal.
You're arguing that liberalism isn't to the left of conservatism. It's been fun. Thanks for the laughs. :)
Liberalism is to the left of conservatism. The problem is that you don't have many conservatives in the USA. Conservatism is a philosophy that emerged as a reaction to liberalism in Renaissance Europe. Specifically, conservativism is a philosophy supporting monarchy and hereditary aristocracy linked to monarchy. There are very very few people in the USA who are conservatives. Instead, what the USA calls conservatives are regressive liberals and what the USA calls liberals are neoliberals and progressive liberals.
Liberalism is a conservative ideology, yes. It's the ideology of capitalism and western imperialism.
Leftism is the political realm of anti-capitalists. In a political dichotomy, liberalism stands on the right with other capitalist ideologies. Leftists stand opposed to them both. Liberalism is the ideology of billionaires, of strike breaking, of economic prosperity for the wealthy being the measuring stick of how successful a society is.
Liberalism is not a conservative ideology. You are confused. Read the Wikipedia article on conservativism at the very least. Conservatism is a pro-royalist, monarchich and aristocratic philosophy that emerged explicitly as a reaction to liberalism.
Conservatism and liberalism are both in favor of billionaires, they disagree on where power lies and who can be billionaires. Conservatives believe royals and hereditary aristocrats with royal backing can be billionaires. Liberals believe merchants can be billionaires.
Here are the definitions I'm using:
Dunn, John (1993), Western Political Theory in the Face of the Future, Cambridge University Press:
political rationalism, hostility to autocracy, cultural distaste for conservatism and for tradition in general, tolerance, and ... individualism
Iain McLean and Alistair McMillan (2009), Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics:
liberalism In general, the belief that it is the aim of politics to preserve individual rights and to maximize freedom of choice.
Where are you getting your definitions from? I feel like you're just making them up.
What absurdly hollow and self serving definitions. You might as well say "liberalism is defined as being good"
“liberalism is defined as being good”
I mean, Love Me, I'm a Liberal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cdqQ2BdgOAIain McLean has worked at the Universities of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Warwick, and Oxford, and has held visiting professorships at Washington & Lee, Stanford, Yale, and the Australian National University. He has been an elected councillor on Tyne & Wear County Council (committee chair) and Oxford City Council (group leader).
You think his definition is "absurdly hollow and self serving" ? Honey what have you accomplished? Do you really think your argument holds any water against a resume like Dr. McLean's? For you to describe his work as "absurd and hollow" is the height of irony.🤣💀 Thank you for making my day!!!
You're quite literally arguing that liberalism isn't liberalism because conservatism/neoliberalism exists.
you meant "figuratively" here, surely. Nothing that I wrote could reasonably be understood to mean "liberalism isn't liberalism". I'm not sure where you got that from, I'm afraid, and it's not my duty to help you achieve comprehension. Maybe you could reach out to your educational institution.
Considering your original comment is gone, meaning I can't even refer to what you said nor to my own response in its context, and that you basically instantly went to ad hominem attacks calling me uneducated, merely for what was either misinterpreting your original comment or disagreeing with it, I can only assume you're not having this discussion out of good faith, so let's end this here.
I didn't edit my comment- talk to your moderation staff. I am discussing in good faith and meant everything I said. But I'm content to be done if you are. Have a day. 🫱
That's not how things work. It doesn't matter whether there is something worse out there or not. Each ideology has to be judged on its own terms. What you're suggesting is a logical fallacy.
It doesn't matter whether there is something worse out there or not.
What gibberish is this? You've introduced wildly subjective metrics "better" and "worse" into a discussion about saving ourselves from exploitation, and then dared to suggest that ideology should be judged on its own terms ? Is this parody?
🤡
You certainly are. Poor fool. Begone then, and trouble us no further.
You seem to be lost. We obviously aren’t going to leave the socialist space we have created for ourselves.
You managed to make a self referential comment in your confusion I see.
So is red lemmy just a porn instance like redtube or why pick red when you're not even slightly left wing?
There's no porn on my instance, did you look at it? Seems typical that you would form a superior opinion without doing any research.
No, if your account has been allowed to stay on your instance, it holds no value to me regardless of whatever content is on it.
Then why on God's green earth did you ask if it had porn on it? Where did that even come from? rofl 😂
Redtube and other porn sites starting with red.
You missed a joke
You are a disgrace to the stink name.
Liberalism, at its core, is an ideology of emancipation that historically sought to dismantle oppressive hierarchies and champion freedom and equality for all. While some argue that liberalism centers on private property and has been co-opted to justify systems like chattel slavery, labor exploitation, and enclosure, this reflects a distortion of liberalism's original emancipatory intent. True liberalism—like anarchism—opposes the concentration of power that limits individual freedom, whether by monarchs, states, or capitalists. Though the liberal tradition has been manipulated to defend private property at the expense of broader freedoms, its true essence aligns with rejecting systems of exploitation and inequality. Similarly, leftist movements rooted in the fight against oppression are fundamentally incompatible with being anti-freedom, illiberal, authoritarian, or reactionary. Leftism, when consistent with its ideals, seeks to expand liberty and dismantle all hierarchies that restrict universal freedom.
Nobody is free until everyone is.
No. That's not true at all. Liberalism is a philosophy that centers power on private property whereas conservativism centers power on a sovereign monarch. Under liberalism, private property is the center of power, and that included chattel slavery. Liberalism is the doctrine that allows you to kill people for trespassing on your property. The logic of liberalism is that every square inch of the universe will be owned by someone and if you own nothing then you can die. Under liberalism, it is better that the homeless die than the state truncate the right of land owners in order to redistribute available wealth.
Liberalism is the philosophy that brought us enclosure. It's the philosophy that brings us private military contractors. It's the philosophy that brings us labor exploitation in factories.
Marxism is inherently ILLIBERAL. Marxism explicitly opposed the existence of private property. Leftism in the modern era is anti-private property and therefore it is illiberal.
I highly recommend reading Losurdo - Liberalism, a counter-history. It debunks this myth that liberalism was about emancipation for all.
You've gotten liberalism confused with anarchism.
If I were more conspiracy-minded, I'd say they were purposely being counterproductive and driving away the only people who could conceivably be converted to their cause.
In reality, some people are just assholes.
hello blueAnon
I'm utterly confused: how do you define "liberal", and why do you think "they" are trying to drive "them" away by criticizing liberalism as a whole?