3mo ago

SkyNews | The number of people on NHS waiting lists in England has fallen for the fourth month in a row, new figures show.

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Waiting lists are a fucking pointless target.
It simply encourages organisations not to add people to the wait list or to find any excuse to remove people from them.
Speech and language therapists will remove patients from their wait list because the patient did not answer or return phone calls. Its an absolutely ridiculous system that will penalise patients with speech impediments for being unable to handle phone calls.
Mental health services will insist patients see a trainee in order to meet their wait list target. Then if the patient is not satisfied with the trainee's competence the patient is added back to the wait list. However because the patient has technically been seen the target is met and the patient will end up waiting indefinitely because the service prioritises other patients in order to meet the wait list target.
The system is absolutely corrupt. Targets are fucking pointless.
- Honest question.
  Yep any target based system leads to people manipulating them to pass. It is just a common human response to forced competition.
  But calling wait lists pointless is also pointless. Without some better way to ensure patients are getting the service they need as effectively as possible.
  So other then spending lots more money. (I agree thats needed but in itself dose not provide metrics of a service)
  What would you propose as a method for measuring NHS effectivness.
  
  I somehow replied to the wrong post. Here's what I meant to say:
  But calling wait lists pointless is also pointless.
  This is going to be ultra pedantic but in case I was misunderstood: I'm saying that using wait times as a target is pointless. Obvs we do need wait lists themselves...
  What would you propose as a method for measuring NHS effectivness.
  First I know I'm not qualified in any way to answer this and there will be people with knowledge who can provide a far better answer. But if you do want my opinion then I'd say a reasonable place to start would be to simply ask the patient. The written answers will be subjective but you can collate all the [yes/no] answers together to see objective patterns of whether patient satisfaction is improving or getting worse.
  How long were you waiting? [Number of weeks] (Would be very interesting to compare this subjective answer to the actual recorded data)
  Was the wait time acceptable? [Yes/No/I don't know]
  -> Did your condition deteriorate as a result of the delay? [Yes/No/I don't know]
  -> How did you condition deteriorate? [Answer in as many words as you like, or possibly a tree of yes/no questions]
  Did you receive treatment? [Yes/No/I don't know]
  -> Did the treatment improve your condition? [Yes/No/I don't know]
  -> Why didn't the treatment help with your condition? [Answer in as many words as you like, or possibly a tree of yes/no questions]
  Were you referred to another service? [Yes/No/I don't know]
  -> Do you agree with the decision to refer you elsewhere? [Yes/No/I don't know]
  -> Why don't you believe the referral is correct? [Answer in as many words as you like, or possibly a tree of yes/no questions]
  Overall how satisfied were you satisfied? [0-10]
  -> How could we improve? [Answer in as many words as you like, or possibly a tree of yes/no questions]

Because more of them have been treated, or because they’ve died off while waiting?
Is there a supporting article?
Edit: found an article
https://www.england.nhs.uk/2025/02/waiting-list-falls-as-nhs-staff-treated-record-numbers-last-year/
- Or third option, they're being prevented from getting on the lists to begin with
  
  Or they are giving up and going private instead?

But Labour and "Keith" are literally the same as the Tories before them!!
- But calling wait lists pointless is also pointless.
  This is going to be ultra pedantic but in case I was misunderstood: I'm saying that using wait times as a target is pointless. Obvs we do need wait lists themselves...
  What would you propose as a method for measuring NHS effectivness.
  First I know I'm not qualified in any way to answer this and there will be people with knowledge who can provide a far better answer. But if you do want my opinion then I'd say a reasonable place to start would be to simply ask the patient. The written answers will be subjective but you can collate all the [yes/no] answers together to see objective patterns of whether patient satisfaction is improving or getting worse.
  How long were you waiting? [Number of weeks] (Would be very interesting to compare this subjective answer to the actual recorded data)
  Was the wait time acceptable? [Yes/No/I don't know]
  -> Did your condition deteriorate as a result of the delay? [Yes/No/I don't know]
  -> How did you condition deteriorate? [Answer in as many words as you like, or possibly a tree of yes/no questions]
  Did you receive treatment? [Yes/No/I don't know]
  -> Did the treatment improve your condition? [Yes/No/I don't know]
  -> Why didn't the treatment help with your condition? [Answer in as many words as you like, or possibly a tree of yes/no questions]
  Were you referred to another service? [Yes/No/I don't know]
  -> Do you agree with the decision to refer you elsewhere? [Yes/No/I don't know]
  -> Why don't you believe the referral is correct? [Answer in as many words as you like, or possibly a tree of yes/no questions]
  Overall how satisfied were you satisfied? [0-10]
  -> How could we improve? [Answer in as many words as you like, or possibly a tree of yes/no questions]

11 comments