3d ago

Watching Canada's decline into a Two-Party System: an r/Ontario post with +1.7k upvotes "Is it time for a Liberal-NDP merger after Doug Ford’s Tories win third straight majority in Ontario election?"

www.reddit.com /r/ontario/comments/1j2hixq/is_it_time_for_a_liberalndp_merger_after_doug/

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/40034360

With Duverger's Law (i.e., in non-PR electoral systems, a trend towards a two-parties), we are running out of time to act. Canada's 2021 effective number of parties is 2.76 - this number will decrease over time, and will eventually end Canadian democracy as we know it today.

The only way to prevent this democratic backsliding is proportional representation: !fairvote@lemmy.ca

Fairvote Canada @lemmy.ca

AlolanVulpix @lemmy.ca

3d ago

Watching Canada's decline into a Two-Party System: an r/Ontario post with +1.7k upvotes "Is it time for a Liberal-NDP merger after Doug Ford’s Tories win third straight majority in Ontario election?"

www.reddit.com /r/ontario/comments/1j2hixq/is_it_time_for_a_liberalndp_merger_after_doug/

42 4

Canada @lemmy.ca

AlolanVulpix @lemmy.ca

3d ago

www.reddit.com /r/ontario/comments/1j2hixq/is_it_time_for_a_liberalndp_merger_after_doug/

23 1

New Democratic Party @lemmy.ca

AlolanVulpix @lemmy.ca

3d ago

www.reddit.com /r/ontario/comments/1j2hixq/is_it_time_for_a_liberalndp_merger_after_doug/

6 0

19 comments

It's time for Liberals and Conservatives to merge

It’s just Liberal voters trying to keep Ford in power, there is no way to act. Ford banned municipalities from using alternatives to fptp. Liberals aren’t going to do anything about it
Our time to for action was a month ago making sure no one who was against Ford voted Liberal but that didn’t happen
Then you get the people who say “just don’t vote split” which as per the above should be “just don’t vote liberal”
- Liberals aren’t going to do anything about it
  That's why us ordinary citizens must do something about it: !fairvote@lemmy.ca

The Liberals and NDP got 250,000 more votes than the Conservatives. Ontario is left wing with a right wing government.
- Don't get discouraged, organize so that we can take back our own government!
  
  My MPP, Steve Clark, orchestrated an 8 billion dollar graft to try to give wealthy Doug Ford donors an unearned benefit from the corrupt process for removing lands from the greenbelt then won a landslide in our riding. The voters here are so fucking right wing that he could BBQ and eat a baby on King Street in Brockville and they would still elect him.

My riding and all the ones around me are an NDP fortress and it would be a shame to lose that to the Liberals because they've been "merged". In my opinion, the problem is not vote-splitting, which is a healthy way of actually, you know, "representing" our diverse views, the problem is that so many of the ridings have been resized to include just enough of the wealthy, suburban and rural conservative vote to make it require almost perfect strategic voting to defeat them.
That said, I would absolutely welcome, celebrate, and advocate for proportional representation or at least instant runoff. FPTP is thoroughly obsolete and has no place in a modern stable democracy.
- The alternative vote aka instant runoff is not a solution. Look at Australia today with an entrenched 2-party that fails to meet the needs of the people with the same aggressive politics and lacklustre action on climate change.
  If you want things to change for the better please support the two front runner proportional representation systems such as the single transferable vote and mixed-member proportional so we can have more small parties/independents win seats, more women/minorities represented in our government, better government performance on important issues and more accountability.
- Overall, I agree.
  However, I wouldn't repeat the sentiment that instant runoff voting (IRV) will potentially solve our problems in the long run.
  Both IRV and FPTP are winner-take-all, therefore meaning there will still be too many votes that don't elect anybody at all.
  With single transferable vote (STV), you can have both ranked ballot and proportional representation!
  In the long run, the only viable solution is proportional representation: !fairvote@lemmy.ca

The OLP, ONDP, and the Greens should just work together strategically in elections to not split votes, win the election, and implement PR for the provincial electoral system. We know the NDP and Greens have been consistent with supporting PR, so there’s really just getting the OLP on the bandwagon. They’ll continue to have little chance at winning as long as DoFo continues to be the good FPTP player he is.
That said though, I seriously don’t know what goes into the OLP’s current strategy. They almost don’t seem like they have one, almost like they don’t desire to become the provincial government. Feels like they’ve been really muted, passive, and only plays within the FPTP rules.
- The OLP, ONDP, and the Greens should just work together ... implement PR for the provincial electoral system. We know the NDP and Greens have been consistent with supporting PR, so there’s really just getting the OLP on the bandwagon.
  But the Liberals benefit from keeping the system broken, and their corporate donors don't want the strong democracy we would have under PR. This goes without saying, but obviously the Conservatives are worse.
  only plays within the FPTP rules.
  Yes, that feeling is precisely the reality.
  Similar to the Democrat's strategy in the US, the Liberals' strategy is to get as many votes as possible without significantly changing the system for their corporate donors. Party over country for both Conservatives and Liberals.
  
  I doubt if the Ontarian Libs are actually benefiting from this, given that they’ve consecutively lost 3 terms now and is not even the official opposition, unless your suggestion is that they’re well-fed by these corporate donors enough to do barely enough to keep splitting votes and let one of them have a chance of winning, which also means they’re basically in cahoots with the PCs, even if indirectly.
  In any case, if that’s what you believe is the situation here, then isn’t there no chance in hell would the Libs ever “merge” or even work with the NDP?

19 comments