Western ammo stocks at 'bottom of the barrel' as Ukraine war drags on, NATO official warns | CNN
Western ammo stocks at 'bottom of the barrel' as Ukraine war drags on, NATO official warns | CNN
Western militaries are running out of ammunition to give to Ukraine, NATO and British officials warned Tuesday, as they urged the bloc’s nations to ramp up production to “keep Ukraine in the fight against Russian invaders.”
Pretty sure the US is sending old surplus stock, and I'm sure the military industrial complex is salivating at the chance to resupply. Maybe if they send slightly newer stuff it might be over quicker.
At any rate, US support for exactly this type of situation was agreed on in the Budapest memorandum as part of Ukrainian nuclear disarmament. Russia broke their end of the bargain and started a war under false pretenses. It is up to them to end it, exactly like it is up to the US to do so when doing the same thing.
If the world can not unite to stand up to countries starting such conflicts, we shall never know peace.
Currently the issue is not tanks and IFVs, but bullets and shells. The US indeed sends older surplus, but the picture is different in Europe. The German army for example had an estimated 20B€ deficit in ammo even before the war started. Production increased, but it's nowhere near replenishing.
And regarding tanks: the German Leopard 1 tanks currently in Ukraine are partially the second line of defense for the Bundeswehr.
The production also increased much more than in the whole US. Basically Europe's goal was at least a million shells until the end of the year. And even when they might fall a bit short on that goal, the US -by it's own account- is still in the we can probably produce 20k per month from 2024 and onward stage of ramping up production.
the German Leopard 1 tanks currently in Ukraine are partially the second line of defense for the Bundeswehr
Yeah, that's bullshit. They had to find people (most of them many decades past their jobs in military) to even do the training because Leopard-1s were simply not a thing for a long time. The ones they are sending to Ukraine are refurbished trash sitting in some yard for decades, mostly out of Germany even.
The only still existing Leopard-1s in operation are found in Greece. Then there are engineering vehicles because they were still sufficient for their job. And when they weren't anymore (because tanks they would need to tow got too heavy) that's when Wisent1 were invented. Which is a commercially developed upgrade for Leopard-1-based engineering vehicles to improve their power to a level where they can handle modern Leopard-2s again. And before the Ukraine war there was only a single buyer: the danish army.
Idk nearly every video I see the Ukrainian fighters have aks and idk how much 7.62x39 ammo the US even has to give.
Maybe if they send slightly newer stuff it might be over quicker.
Possibly, but some of the new technologies would be considered extremely provocative by Russia if we supplied them to Ukraine. We are already treading a very fine line with involvement in this conflict, and being accused of using Ukraine to fight a proxy war (though mostly by people who have a vested interest in Russia/Putin winning the war).
We have been supplying the Javelin antitank system in large quantities, to great effect. This is relatively easy because it's quick to train a soldier to use and it can just be disposed of if broken or out of ammo.
It's important that we not send them equipment that they can't operate, supply or maintain. For instance we didn't send them any modern US-built fighter jets because they don't have pilots trained to fly them, a supply chain for spare parts, or mechanics trained to fix them. Ultimately, logistics matters more than having the latest and greatest tech (logistics has been absolutely wrecking Russia's battlefield effectiveness).
What is there to "provoke"? This is an extremely clear cut case of a violation of international law. They started a war, annexed a significant portion of the country, committed countless atrocities. Why should we act like this is somehow not a reason to wipe the current leadership off the political map?
Putin won't use nuclear weapons and he can't realistically escalate the war. Every minute we let this war drag on, kills people. Not sending the most useful weapons is just inhumane at this point.
I actually mostly agree and was being a bit sarcastic. Training on newer systems is prohibitive anyway as you mentioned. Sending personell is clearly provocative and should be avoided. I just find the argument that the military industrial complex ran out of the bullets to help is laughable.
Obviously, production increases with demand and lags it causing stockpiles to decrease until output increases. Hopefully the quoted assessment is talking about that dip and not a more serious problem.
Really though, Russia knows the US is obligated to help. They signed the memorandum too, after all. It's hard to argue with someone that does so in bad faith, but continuing aid is hardly a provocative act.
When was the last effective Javelin strike? I thought that people have shifted towards using FPV drones to target armoured vehicles instead.
The world didn't start in 2022 lol
Sounds like you're looking for someone to blame so that you don't have to think hard about solutions
2022? Russia and the US have been starting or supporting wars of aggression for decades. Opposing crimes against humanity, by force if necessary, should not be controversial even for a pacifist. History shows clearly what happens when such aggression is met with appeasement.
What solution am I too stupid to think of?
Providing military aid is a last resort and a terrible solution. The only worse solution is to give up and hand over a sovereign nation we promised to protect to a tyrant.
Would I prefer the world get their act together and sanction them until they can't function, obviously yes. I don't think that's very likely though, same as most other proposals for ending the conflict as fundamentally only Putin can end it.
Hogwash. Why was Victoria Nuland handing out cookies in Maidan Square the day before the protests turned violent and the democratically elected president of Ukraine fled for his life when Right Sector militants stormed the government building and took over the election proceedings for the new government? Why did the US spend 3Bn training neo-Nazis before 2014, groups they've had long connections with ever since Operation Aerodynamic? Why did those neo-Nazis start shelling the Donbass when they decided to secede from the new pro-West government installed by the right-wing under the direction of the US and specifically Nuland?
You can pretend to be the reasonable one all day long with your empty words. Your position cannot stand up against actual historical facts. The war started long before Russia invaded in 2022.
Yeah, it started when Russia invaded in 2014
Who are we going to need to fight against right now that would require significant ammunition stocks?
Clearly Russia can't do jack shit to anyone else right now, they're far too busy even just trying to hold the small chunk of Ukraine they invaded.
Do we think China is going to take this opportunity to invade a NATO ally?
Do we think China is going to take this opportunity to invade a NATO ally?
Possibly Taiwan, especially if they think the US is overextended and unwilling to invest in another conflict.
Taiwan is not a NATO ally, only the US has said they are going to get involved. Also the US clearly isn't overextended given that they have no troops at all in Ukraine. It wouldn't be a war of bullets and artillery either, it's going to be ships and aircraft and missiles. None of which are committed to Ukraine.
It's been less than a week and I'm here to let you know that this comment has aged poorly. The counter-offensive is over. Ukraine has made no significant progress, meanwhile Russia has gained ground.
"Guys, we're out of stock. It's been going on long enough now anyway and we earned enough selling it to you, so can we stop the war please?"
😅