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chapotraphouse @hexbear.net

SuperZutsuki [they/them] @hexbear.net

2y ago

Dating apps are so fucking cursed

Isn't the entire point of the profile and matching system to filter incompatible people out? Why can I match with 50 people and not a single one wants to get a coffee or something after exchanging a few pleasantries? Everybody hates these things and yet they refuse to do anything IRL to get off them. Is there some Manchurian candidate activation codeword that I'm missing? I feel like everyone treats this shit solely as an ego booster and actually gets pissed off that anyone tries to interact with them. How do you meet people in hellworld if you don't drink?

Me after dozens of dead-end back-and-forths that lead to nowhere despite having shared interests and presumably being attracted to each other since we matched:

Hmm, maybe it's the extreme commodification of relationships and atomization under capitalism that prevents you from getting anywhere with this garbage

Nope, must be because @SuperZutsuki@hexbear.net didn't say my favorite "The Office" quote and send me a playlist with 50 of the greatest songs I've never heard that made me instantly fall in love with them. I have no idea what other people expect from these things but I'm not doing labor for someone that I don't even know is real. Thanks for reading my rant, any advice is appreciated.

91 comments

No, they deliberately get in the way of you matching with the most compatible people unless you pay for "premium" features that used to be core functionality
- I'm just a few weeks into this hell and probably going to be done with it soon. I need to find some events to go to that aren't centered on drinking. Then I just have to wrangle with my crippling social anxiety.

If only we had places where people could commune with each other without paying money
- Just going to walk around the library in a book costume asking people if they want to check me out
  
  It'll work on someone
  
  that would kinda work on me lol ngl
  
  Yeah, ok
  
  what happens when you open the custom's "book"?

It's a miserable experience. After years of trying I only ever managed to meet up with one person I thought I had in-person chemistry with. At the end of the date she gave me her number unprompted. Then she unmatched me and I never saw or heard from her again
- At the end of the date she gave me her number unprompted. Then she unmatched me and I never saw or heard from her again
  I've had almost this exact scenario play out too haha

I'll be frank as a person that has been on dating websites before they were apps... people often go on them for small validation and then realize they have no time to meet others when they have to prep for work. It's gotten worse after covid lockdowns.
I'm on Grindr and Feeld mostly and Hinge sometimes. I'm mostly looking for casual sex buddies and not relationships.
I'm not gonna say the "it's not you it's me" line nor its inverse. Because the honest answer is: it's not us, it's capitalism.
I've had to cancel so many times on people because I sometimes get home too tired to move after work. And have had people cancel as well. Nobody admits that fatigue but it's understood.
And keep in mind I'm queer, bi, relatively attractive and literally looking to hand out blowjobs. Sometimes people are too tired to even get their dicks sucked
So don't think you're doing things completely wrong. The hellscape makes it hard to meet new people.
- Sometimes people are too tired to even get their dicks sucked
  the greatest indictment of our economic system

Dating apps don't want people to form relationships for the same reason pharmaceutical companies don't want to cure diseases. They just want a temporary, hopefully addictive, treatment for loneliness not a remedy

People use dating apps with the expectation it'll just find the perfect person of their dreams. In reality it matches strangers with no connection outside of vague attraction.
Relationships just aren't built that way they're done through shared experiences.
Anyway i quite literally ended up pseudo automating the dating apps at one point and if a meetup wasn't agreed within x messages I'd move on. Then I gave up and ended up dating someone i knew irl for like 8 years.
Most people i know with successful relationships weree matchmade by friend groups or met playing an mmo or some other common interest.
- It's funny, the only time a dating app match actually whether anywhere for me was when I matched with someone I was already friends with from work. Didn't last too long but it was cool because I already had a foundation to work off of instead of having to awkwardly message a stranger.
  Anyway I've realized I need more friends. I just struggle to meet new people. I do have a few friends but they've never really tried to set me up with anyone so I'm kind of stuck right now.
- It's another avenue of meeting people, that's all. Or sometimes, your only avenue of meeting people. My work schedule is too chaotic to go to any social hangout place on a regular basis, not that there's any near me anyway.

Dating apps are good for femme comrades but not so good for male-presenting ones. The sex ratio is something like 9:1 so unless you're in the top 10%, most people won't consider you an option. Plus, since it's all online you can't use things like personality and charm to make up for the deficit of looks.
What this means practically for male-presenting folks is that you either wait until it naturally occurs in your daily life, a bad idea that relies on luck, or actively seek it out. The problem is that seeking out partners in real life you're inevitably going to make people uncomfortable, get denied, and fuck some things up. If you're socially awkward or ND, that means you will most likely end up as the topic of someone's "creepy guy" story.
My personal advice? Make friends, volunteer, get involved with activities and hope you find someone in your travels. But remember, the vast majority of dating follows a conservative view of humanity. Fair or not, equal or not, if you're male-presenting you are expected to initiate and prove your worth. Until that changes, a lot of conservative dating advice is still the most effective way to meet women. Obviously drop the dehumanizing bullshit and sexism though.
- Tbh I think they're only good for femme peeps if you're A) mostly just looking for casual stuff (not to say serious relationships are impossible on the apps, just difficult to find) and B) are willing to sign a deal with the devil where you will absolutely be sexually harassed by a deluge of fucking weirdos. There's a reason for the gender skew on the apps and I suspect being bombarded by creeps and unsafe people is a huge reason women/femme presenting ppl aren't on these awful things anymore. Though idk I'm male presenting so I'm relying on speculation here. But I really do think it's bad for both sides, just in different ways (this is assuming hetero relationships ofc, things change a lot I'd imagine if you're looking for gay relationships on the apps).
  EDIT: realize "deal with the devil" language could sound victim blame-y, to clarify it is 100 percent only the fault of the creepy dudes harassing women and not of the women who are using one of the only available options left to meet people reliably.
- if you’re male-presenting you are expected to initiate and prove your worth
  Only true if you match with someone who sees dating as a market and not a potential experience to get to know a human. During my time on the apps, I’ve never really initiated and have still found myself in relationships
  
  This is true. In my experience, there are more people who see it as a market than a chance to get to know somebody. I think there is a lot of middle ground as well where people say "I might as well go on a date and see how it goes" but don't really put the effort in because they know there's a whole app of people waiting that could potentially offer a better match.
  It's a kind of choice paralysis. I think the apps are designed that way. Obviously their goal is to keep people on the app and either paying subscriptions or viewing ads. They don't want you to leave.
  No matter how interesting and attractive you find someone on there, there's always the chance that you can do "better".
  
  Screaming at the screen due to posts like this.
  
  Only true if you match with someone who sees dating as a market and not a potential experience to get to know a human.
  It's certainly not a conscious decision, granted, but dating and social interactions in general are largely a market. Even if you're unaware of the unconscious calculations your brain makes, it doesn't mean they go away. You have to have an interest in someone before you want to get to know them. That interest is largely based off of unconscious social cues. In the same way you don't make the conscious decision to be angry, you don't make the conscious decision to have interest in someone.
  During my time on the apps, I’ve never really initiated and have still found myself in relationships
  This seems to run counter to the vast majority of the other male-presenting people on hexbear and in-general. You could be lucky, but I'd wager you're either more attractive or more adept at navigating social situations than the average person.
- I was thinking about that the other day, how it would make more sense within the confines of a binary patriarchal system if women were expected asked men out. This makes sense considering that most men would take most women, while women seem more likely to have “a type” or be offended by advances. This would also decrease predatory behavior. Of course, it’s not like that, because the current way gives men the agency.

- It's definitely worse. My spouse and I met via OKCupid in the before-time, before enshittification (and the Match dot com buyout) took hold. We've been together ever since because we're both fuckin' weirdos. Yes, the personality quiz shit was just stripped down Myers-Briggs with a coat of paint, but hey -- some of those scores were great as early warning signs and/or red flags (the not-fun kind). If nothing else, the random questions (and associated match scores) were at least somewhat predictive of whether one might get along with a prospective partner, or if they might have shared interests or views.
  That initial version of the site right after the re-brand from The Spark (2004 to mid-2005) was decent overall, but then they started fucking with the matching algorithm by hiding or skewing results based on attractiveness and so forth. It went from a conversation starter to an incel factory.
  
  You could actually look through the questions and saw what they answered to see if there were any deal breakers, or deal makers for that matter. You could even get some idea of sexual compatibility early on, even though that's not a first date conversation. It used to be a lot better.
  
  Yes, the personality quiz shit was just stripped down Myers-Briggs with a coat of paint, but hey -- some of those scores were great as early warning signs and/or red flags (the not-fun kind). If nothing else, the random questions (and associated match scores) were at least somewhat predictive of whether one might get along with a prospective partner, or if they might have shared interests or views.
  I think this was actually the best system. Is a better system even possible? Removing it means I have to wade through 100x as many dick pics and manually performed interrogations just to find the non-red-flag.

I just wish a) people would hit on me and I would know it (there is this person who I am attracted to who keeps complimenting my outfits but especially my dresses and yesterday did some incidental body contact over the duration of an activity we were doing as a group of friends, I am choosing to interpret this as me reading into things because it feels ambiguous and I'd prefer to have a friend than risk losing a friend for the possibility of some other sort of relationship) or b) that I'd be able to distinguish between internalized homophobia and transphobia telling me not to be predatory in situations where it is genuinely okay and/or welcome to express interest in people and when it genuinely wouldn't be appropriate to express interest in people.
I'm currently seriously dating someone right now but I miss seeing new folks, and I miss having sex with people that I care about but am not in a romantic relationship with.
For a long time I just wished that there was a medium for me to meet new people that I could sleep around with, but at this point I'm kinda accepting that at this stage of my life that isnt my problem, my problem is that I'm too burnt out to fix the internalized stuff, and because of the fluid nature of social expectations and my autistic ass just knowing the appropriate rules seems unreasonable outside of gay bars and dungeon parties, none of which take covid seriously.
Alternatively people could stop projecting predatory shit onto transfemmes and I could worry more about coming across as awkward and worry less about being beaten up or socially ostracized for being read as creepy. Or pigs could fly.
I wish there was flagging for "be overt as possible if you are flirting with me"
- Society teaches us that randomly hitting on people is generally in poor taste and looked down upon. I’d expect that’s why it doesn’t happen as often
  
  Its weird, because that paradigm seems to result in cis men and people with power over other people just finding fun new ways to do sexual harassment so it isnt even useful.

I've had pretty good success just trying to be as open and honest as possible. Like, I just put in my profile that I'm a communist, on disability, ND, like everything about me.
When we match, I info dump about something to them, them to me, then we go out .
The secret, for me, at least is to just date other queer ND people.
- What does ND stand for?
  
  Neurodivergent. In contrast to neurotypical.

I found my life partner on a dating app, and before that used dating apps to successfully hook up with people.
So take it from me, someone who had the best possible customer experience: they are designed to make you feel desperate and want to use their paid features. That is the only function they are designed to fulfill, every other aspect of them serves that function. If you are having no success with them, please, please don't despair: there is nothing wrong with you.
So, what do you do? Well...
Hmm, maybe it's the extreme commodification of relationships and atomization under capitalism that prevents you from getting anywhere with this garbage
Basically, yeah. We've fucked up our culture and become so socially atomized that we have way fewer third places and social mixer activities than we should have. Meeting new people IRL requires that we be in situations where we get to actually do some socializing with those new people. That's why big nerd conventions are such a classic place for new friendships and romantic relationships to start up, because it's one of the few true social mixers where we have that opportunity for relatively easy socializing with new people (and where we have some common ground to start a conversation about). But outside of that, we really do end up just sitting at home, or going to do hobby stuff with the same people we've known for years - not a conducive to meeting new romantic partners.
So the answer is kinda the usual "capitalism fucked up dating, and also it's fucking up the bandaid solution that is online dating"

Dates, I just want friends at this point. People to talk about deep issues and laugh together with. The app won't give me that either.

I'll never use a dating app

Hmm, maybe it's the extreme commodification of relationships and atomization under capitalism that prevents you from getting anywhere with this garbage
Yuuuuuup! Also: dating apps just like everything else under capitalism are not built to actually accomplish their stated function: they are there to extract surplus value. In this case: engagement and audience retention. If these apps were actually effective at helping people find meaningful lasting relationships they'd essentially be shrinking their user base.
- What I'm hearing is we need a dating app that keeps your money in escrow or something until after you've successfully reached a pre-stated relationship goal (moved in / marriage / children etc).
  More and harder commodification helps, right?

We need to abolish apps and normalize chatting up hotties at the Dollarama.

Dont have long conversations with people on dating apps is my advice, get it to real life and x out the commodification machine asap
- That's the problem: nobody seems interested in anything beyond pointless chatting about dumb shit or maybe they want to sext or something but that bores me to tears. It doesn't help that I'm ND and just want direct open communication.
  
  Dont bother with the chat feature, say hi, something else and then suggest to meet up somewhere safe and neutral. Move on if theyre not showing interest
  Chats fucking boring and theres really no reason to play the game, also youre not feeling bad on the toilet on your phone after they move onto the next shiny thing.

I've never used a dating site and I'm not about to now. Be a boomer and get a social hobby with a wide rl community that meet up.

I seriously don’t understand how dating apps are even a thing. Do people don’t know how to make friends anymore?
If there is one thing online apps should be used for such purposes, it’s for making friends.
You have a hobby? Go and find like-minded people who share the same hobby, regardless of their genders and whether or not you’re attracted to them. Like, genuinely try to get to know someone without thinking about dating them or getting laid. You like photography? Go and find people who like the same as well - you already have at least one common interest to relate to, so don’t tell me you have nothing to talk about.
Hang out with your new friends, and because friends introduce friends to other friends, soon enough you will make more friends. Find someone you’re attracted to and they feel the same? Start hanging out more with one another. It’s that simple.
If you are introduced by a friend, then you are already one foot in the door - you’re already past the “creep” and “stranger” territory. In fact, you are already several steps ahead of someone trying to date through online dating apps. Let me ask you this: are you more likely to respond to someone who is introduced to you by a friend you trust, or some randoms who hit you up on dating apps that you know nothing about? The odds are heavily stacked in your favor.
It’s that easy. No stupid pickup artist bullshit like doing 1000 cold approaches to annoy people on the street (lol), no spending endless hours swiping on dating apps and wondering if you’re sending the perfect message or curating the most perfect profile. No, just show up to a friend’s gathering and enjoy talking to people, that’s all you need.
Seriously, I feel like the root cause of the problem is that people these days are so alienated in society that they have grown too afraid to socialize. Complaints like “no, I don’t want to talk to people who I imagine might say reactionary things that I don’t like!” are just excuses to stop oneself from interacting with real people in the real world.
If you’re too afraid to even socialize, how is dating app going to help?
- Do people don’t know how to make friends anymore?
  once you're out of college-age it gets pretty impossible and has been that way for decades in the US at least. even worse if you're any kind of ND and can't tell the difference between friendliness and interest because nobody is ever friendly.
  when you're in college age they're hookup apps and i was lucky enough to get out before those really took hold.
  
  I am in my mid-30s and I still meet people relatively frequently (less so since Covid, to be fair, but that’s on me as I’m still not very comfortable with large social gatherings). People just keep on inviting me to hang out. Sure, some of them are too immature for me these days, but I still meet people my age, many already in a relationship, but some are still single. And I’m not even in the market for dating/relationship, just enjoying meeting new friends.
  Do you have hobbies or interests? It’s fairly easy to make new friends simply by meeting like-minded people at these activities/gatherings.
- Seriously, I feel like the root cause of the problem is that people these days are so alienated in society that they have grown too afraid to socialize. Complaints like “no, I don’t want to talk to people who I imagine might say reactionary things that I don’t like!” are just excuses to stop oneself from interacting with real people in the real world.
  Not gonna lie I see some posts on this site that outright describe people in their community with the same vitriolic hatred that Timothy McVeigh describes brown people. Sure I bet there are alot of areas with right wingers, but I'm sorry but if everyone around you is a literal demon then have you ever thought about the fact that the common factor in all of your interactions with these people is you?
  The emotional core of fascism is a deep misanthropy and I've seen so many young people who grew up with some socialization issues and a deepset hatred of other people latch onto communist politics and then become some sort of fascist or right-winger later in life. I don't care about how epic you think your Maoism-Third Worldism is, I've seen enough of those people become Nazis or Haziods that I can clearly see a pattern in that sort of psychological framework to be incredibly sus of that sort of sentiment.
  
  Even people I mostly agree with are not immune to the crabs in a bucket mentality.

Man I don't even get to the conversation stage most of the time. I get a lot of likes in tinder, but its like 99% older burlier men that I don't match with. I only really like twinks, but I guess I've been classed as the twink
. It's even harder matching with women. The ratio of men:women is so severe that I feel like I'm just a part of the void. I've had more conversations on hinge, but none have lead to anything in the real world and one of us always just ends up ghosting the other and unmatching. The only caveat I have is that I've only started using apps after leaving the US, so the language barrier may be more of a challenge here idk.
- The ratio of men:women is so severe
  fr if you're looking for men it's like an all you can eat buffet, but 9/10 items on the buffet will give you severe food poisoning
  
  I don't think that's specific to dating apps either lololol

How are people's experiences with Hinge? I've been pretty isolated for the past three years, haven't used a dating app in four (Tinder, one good date, one meh, one terrible.) As someone else stated, I'm out of college, hardly do anything social these days, just desperate to get out and have some sort of relationship again. I've had a friend recommend it.
- Bumble and Hinge were far and away my best experiences. I met my current S.O. who moved in this year through Bumble, but prior to that I matched and met with some cool people through Hinge. Its got a nice format. I also had an overall bad experience with Tinder but I entered the dating scene after I turned 30 and in hindsight I'm pretty sure that app is primarily for people who are 20 something college dummies looking to hook up with people nearby.
  
  So there's hope at least. But it's true, these apps obviously have an incentive to keep you looking. You really have to beat the system somehow.

The pictures don't load for me, so here is general advice from a person who spent probably hundreds of hours mindlessly swiping and holding meaningless conversations:
Treat it as a lottery
As in, there is an actual possibility for a very positive outcome, but the chance is miniscule and you shouldn't realistically expect any serious outcome.
I've had several very long-lasting connections formed on dating apps, but I only went so far because I spent months swiping and going through hundreds of eventually empty conversations.
Don't treat it seriously or it will emotionally grind you down. If you actually want to find a date, don't use dating apps at all. If you want to mindlessly scroll like on social media apps and kill time, sure.
- This how I feel about love in capitalism it's just a lottery

How do you meet people in hellworld if you don't drink
that doesn't work either comrade
lmao, lol even

Wait you actually get matches??????
EDIT: E Z glib reply aside though you're right that these things are hell. The nice thing abt being a communist and having an awful time on them, though, is that you have the tools to actually diagnose why they suck so bad and are less primed to take it personally (at least this is what I tell myself lol). I think I also became single during a period where they've reached new depths of enshittification, sounds like mb you're having a similar experience?

Isn't the entire point of the profile and matching system to filter incompatible people out?
They are a business and they have investors; their job is to keep you swiping right and left, not to get you a match, a date, let alone laid.
I feel like everyone treats this shit solely as an ego booster and actually gets pissed off that anyone tries to interact with them
For most people, this is basically it. You get on Tinder to see how hot you are, but you are really just fucking your friends friends, or going to bars or parties, or hilariously enough, fucking your coworkers.

I have have had luck going to fet life meetups. Everyone there is pretty much queer, nerdy and neurodiverget. I think they real important part is thst they are all people used to going to places. That part is I think the bit that could be extrapolated to general use. People used to swiping on apps are inclined to swipe on apps. Asking a swipe on app person to go out is an extra burden.

Dating apps have undergone enshittification just as much as any other social media platform. Even the ones that started with relatively good intentions and helpful mechanisms have, as they've dialed in toward profitability, made it harder and harder to actually discharge their supposed purpose. They're designed not just to keep you on the hook, but to entice you toward paying for premium features. I had some success on really niche online dating platforms back in the early 2010s, but all the ones that were actually good for meeting people have gone under in the last decade. The ones that are still here are, by definition, the ones that are making enough money to stick around; they don't do that by getting people off the platform.
As most other people here have said, the best way to meet people (either friends or romantic partners) is to volunteer or actively participate in an IRL hobby. Those are good because anyone you meet doing those things is someone you are guaranteed to have something meaningful in common with. Get involved with stuff you're passionate about. I know that's easier said than done for a lot of people, but I really do think pretty much everyone is much more likely to find success doing that than scrolling Tinder. I met my wife volunteering for an org that we both care about deeply, and it served as both a litmus test for character (we both knew that someone involved in this org had to at least have some redeeming qualities) and an immediate bonding point.
- Get involved with stuff you're passionate about.
  That's the thing though. I'm just not passionate about anything.
  
  that can be a symptom of clinical depression
  if it's possible for you, it might be worth getting checked
  untreated depression is very much not good
  
  then explore hobbies until you find something you're interested in
  
  You're here, so you're likely passionate about leftism to some degree or another. Have you thought about volunteering around that? I know it's a hard barrier to overcome, especially if you're introverted, but it's pretty rewarding in a number of different ways.

Honestly, it’s a numbers game- meaning you have to commit to it for an extended period of time and weave through all the awful matches before you finally hit it off with someone worth meeting up with
But +1 to all these other comments, online dating hasn’t always been this hard. Enshitification and endless commodification of everything and all that

Why can I match with 50 people and not a single one wants to get a coffee or something after exchanging a few pleasantries?
I would say that roughly half my matches never respond, and of the remainder 70% goes out with me after a day or two of making light conversation. I'm not pretending to like the Office or whatever either; my bio says I'm a leftist / hobbies are XYZ / etc. What you see is what you get. I get very few matches but they are cautiously interested in me. However, I am a neurotypical guy, and I also do the legwork of suggesting a cute coffee/dessert shop in a convenient location for her. If you have gotten 50 matches they may be less interested in you individually to start with, or your conversation is putting people off. If you are consistently striking out at the small-talk stage, and you want to meet people through apps, you might want to show an honest friend some of your conversations and see if they think you're coming across weirdly.
But yeah dating apps suck, dating in general kind of sucks, meeting people in general kind of sucks. Try not to take it too personally.
"communist" scares people. c'est la vie 🙄
- I'm definitely coming across weirdly because I'm looking for queer leftists. Looking for someone queer alone is a huge struggle where I am unless I want to travel 50 miles to the nearest big city and many of the queer people are very lib. I've already given up on straight cis people because enby (AMAB) and anyway every woman in a 20 mile radius is either a hyperchud, antivax hippie, or girlboss neolib who wants a REAL MAN, which I'm not. There's one person who seems genuinely interested but (if they're not making an excuse) had some real shit happen recently and cancelled so we'll see.
  
  I think you might want to put "looking for other queer leftists" in your bio. If you do the filtering before they match with you, you don't have to waste as much time. By coming across weirdly I just mean giving strange vibes in DMs after matching, sounds like your profile is fine if you're getting matches.

I got off those horrid apps when I realized that they were worse than social media. Which I've completely done my best to separate from.
After years of therapy I came to the conclusion that dating apps had to go much like my porn consumption (a habit I kicked years ago)
But it seems that's just how everyone meets nowadays, I'm 30 now and I'm starting to accept that just maybe this is my life from now on.
My mom really wants me to find someone to the point she will pressure almost anyone on me, but in my dating I've always lost them once we touch the topics of politics....
I'm starting to prepare my life to accept being alone
- Trust me I don't bring it up at all but sometimes they just want to bring up a hot button topic and honestly I'd rather just be myself now.... If speaking for humanity is wrong or comes off too strong then so be it. At least you got the real me and not some fake me.
  For a long moment I felt like I had to show myself out for somebody to take an interest. At my age, I just kind of feel like if you don't like me as I am. I like the peace and quiet sometimes even when it gets lonely. Theres gotta be someone there but I'm not doing dating apps... I absolutely hate that environment it's not ADHD friendly

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