Germany’s Stifling of Pro-Palestinian Voices Pits Historical Guilt Against Free Speech
Germany’s Stifling of Pro-Palestinian Voices Pits Historical Guilt Against Free Speech
Archive: [ https://archive.ph/U4YZr ]
The police in Berlin said they had blocked over half of the 41 scheduled Gaza solidarity protests, sometimes on the grounds that they would “emotionalize” residents of Palestinian origin. These included a children’s demonstration to mourn the Palestinian children killed by Israeli strikes in the past month. Permitted protests were banned from using slogans such as “stop the war” and “free Palestine.”
Yeah, this will not hold up in court and is likely just for political points.
Genuine question, when will Germany stop simping for Israel? I get it, Hitler did the Holocaust, but that's gone. It's history. Hitler is gone and so are his goons. I think it's time to move on and just think logically. It's kinda pathetic at this point.
Never, because just like everyone else we get drowned in propaganda of how even entertaining the idea to not slaughter Palestinian children is somehow unbridled support for Hamas terrorism.
That being said, the part of the population not toally dumbed down yet to just parrot narratives often seems to be moving in the exact different direction and usually pushes back against a public discussion that purely consists of narratives and attempts to stifle every nuanced discussion. (PS: Ohh... and the right wing morons also have suddenly dicovered their love for Israel as anti-islam messages seem more important for fascists right now than anti-semitism. So at least half the messaging at the moment consists of talk about all those evil antisemitic leftists or some other delusion they love to spread. That's the real historic joke here: pseudo-nazis supporting Israel against evil muslims.)
Idk what parts you're from but nobody i know thinks the way you describe. Not sure where you're getting force fed propaganda.
Everyone here knows the hamas attack was cruel and must be judged. And independent from that also knows that bombing civilians to shit doesn't solve anything and should be punished as war crimes.
Dude, it‘s just not that different here than in other countries in the west. France, England, USA, there are the same debates. I don‘t know why you keep pushing this narrative, that we have some special propaganda here.
They'll stop after the revolution.
I really think it has less to do with the Holocaust and more to do with the material interests of the German capitalist class. Especially now when cheap Russian energy is off the table, so cheapish Middle Eastern energy will have to do. The only way that cheapish energy is readily available is if the US' Middle Eastern aircraft carrier and forward operating base is open for business.
Repentance for the crimes of the past is just a really convenient way the same capitalist class can get the plebs on board with their imperial designs.
Germans can't live with themselves murdering 6 million Jews without transferring the guilt onto Palestinians
I don’t get it. From what I can remember from history classes and reading Wikipedia (so not ideal sources!) the victims of the holocaust numbered some c.6million Jews out of the c.14m total victims including, amongst others, c.7.8m soviet pows and civilians.
Surely what Germany should have guilt for is its genocide against humans, not specifically just its treatment of Jews. So unless we’re saying the treatment of communist, Slavic, Romani, gay and disabled people etc by nazi Germany was not such a bad thing actually and it’s just the Jews that Germany regrets killing (and surely we are not saying that!?) then it would seem to me that Germany should be speaking out against any and all genocide, including that of Palestinians?
I’m legitimately confused about this point of view.
"The Holocaust" usually refers specifically to the killing of Jews and not the broader genocide, though this varies. It is also worth noting that about 1 million Jews were killed on the eastern front and are correctly counted as part of the 6 million, but overall if anything you are probably lowballing non-Jewish victims.
I think part of the reason for Jews being a focus of the discussion is that they were the face of the vilification and the Nazis went to incredible lengths to capture or kill every Jewish person they possibly could in the territory they controlled, both in relatively stabley-held civil society and recently taken-over military conquests, which is pretty unusual compared to other genocides. Jews were also far and away one of the most brutally killed and persecuted on a per capita basis compared to other groups (though I think Romani were in a similar boat there but Europe just hates them).
It's complicated, I wouldn't use the historical part here before 45. Germany is since the Marshall-Plan deep in the hands of US politics. If Palestines are not allowed to demonstrate in the US, then it's not allowed in Germany.
Any critism about Israel-poltics from Germany would be attacked with antisemitism.
This conflict is highly complicated for Germany, foreign minister baerbocks abstention at the UN resolution earned hard critics from Israel, but German people approved this decision because it shows the inner conflict between pro Israel and against a genocide. It looks like both isn't possible anymore. And the USA should decide quickly, germany would follow as always.
They also prohibited a demonstration by the progressive Jewish group Jüdische Stimme.
Explaining their reasoning on the Jüdische Stimme protest, the police told The New York Times that the demonstration was “explicitly open to participants of Palestinian origin,” and said organizers coordinated with protesters whose demonstrations were banned over concerns about antisemitic incitement.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Since fleeing Syria a decade ago, Wafa Mustafa has spoken out for political prisoners at the United Nations, held vigils outside war crimes trials and chanted in solidarity with Iranians protesting their authoritarian government.
Nowhere has the debate over what is legal and legitimate expression of dissent been more fraught than in Germany, where it has struck at the heart of how the nation defines itself, and prompted questions about which values should be prioritized at the cost of others.
Germans defending the restrictions note that the country has a less permissive stance on free speech than many democracies for subjects beyond Israel, a legacy of World War II and how the Nazis exploited the democratic process to seize power.
Last month, the police detained a woman standing in a Berlin square after she refused to put down a poster that read, “As a Jew and Israeli: Stop the genocide in Gaza.”
Over 100 Jewish writers, artists and academics signed a letter condemning Germany’s practices: “If this is an attempt to atone for German history, its effect is to risk repeating it.”
In August, childhood classmates of Bavaria’s finance minister, Hubert Aiwanger, said he once distributed an antisemitic flier and gave Nazi salutes — accusations he either dismissed as youthful defiance or denied.
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Historical nazis protecting modern day nazis.