Opinion: We have Forgotten the meaning of Remembrance
Opinion: We have Forgotten the meaning of Remembrance
With apologies for voicing an opinion rather than linking an external article.
I am of the strong opinion that Remembrance Day had become at best grandstanding, and at worst, completely meaningless. There are phases tossed around like "Lest we Forget" or "Never Again". But when Russia invaded Ukraine, we have effectively done the opposite (or very nearly).
Sure, we can send ammo so Ukranians can fight back, or host some of their forces for training. But the reality is, we are only marginally involved. We haven't mobilized. We aren't on war footing economically.
The root causes are many. But a combination of NATO's article 5 protection only kicking in if we are attacked (rather than joining an already existing war), and the threat of nuclear retaliation, means we are paralyzed politically.
At a minimum: I would support direct involvement, whether that's ramping up our own military, deploying specialists, reservists for minesweeping, stationing our own troops (meagre as they are) in Ukraine to directly support the fight. I would actually support much larger actions, including naval blockades or airspace closures but wholly understand that Canada cannot execute those on their own.
We cannot allow genocidal wars to be pressed in the modern world. And we should be doing everything we can about it. Right now, we're doing barely more than nothing.
You have forgotten the meaning of remembrance if you think the point is to glorify war. It’s meant to remember the sacrifices made, not hope for more.
There are phases tossed around like "Lest we Forget" or "Never Again". But when Russia invaded Ukraine, we have effectively done the opposite (or very nearly).
I read these two sentences as being at odds with each other.
When I hear "never again", I take it to mean that we should remember the cost and horrors of war, and we shouldn't enter into another war lightly.
We cannot allow genocidal wars to be pressed in the modern world.
Morally I agree. Practically, it's a harder case to make. We're currently ignoring genocide in Yemen, and the plight of the Rohingya, and Uyghurs.
When we tried to stop the Rwandan genocide, and failed miserably.
I doubt we'd do much better in Ukraine. Worse, it would give Putin an excuse to use nukes.
We’re currently ignoring genocide in Yemen, and the plight of the Rohingya, and Uyghurs.
Who is "we"? You and I have no power to prevent these things and the politicians we can choose from have no interest in doing more than tweeting about it.
Those genocides aren't part of OPs post. Our media and politicians mostly ignore them as well.
the politicians we can choose from have no interest in doing more than tweeting about it
Canadian politicians are providing Saudi Arabia with armoured vehicles.
If not for nukes, the West ( really any single NATO country frankly ) could end the war with Russia easily. Russia could not only be pushed out of Ukraine but perhaps the easiest way to do it would just be to occupy Moscow, form a new government, and end the war.
The lesson of history though is that the real problems begin after you do that. While the threat of nukes is real, I think the West is hiding behind that so that we do not have to directly engage. Having Ukraine do it for us is not only preferable to putting our own troops at risk but, perhaps more importantly, there is a lot more legitimacy to them fending off an invader. If it is done that way, the ability to achieve political stability and peaceful progress is greatly enhanced.
The West could be a little faster sending more advanced weaponry. If I was Ukrainian, I would feel like the blood of my countrymen was being spilled unnecessarily. That said, for the same reasons as above, the current pace is probably better for everybody in the long run.
Putin and Russia ( as it has been ) are unlikely to survive this conflict. What they get replaced by remains to be seen. In the long run though, that is the more important question and the more important objective. Ukraine needs to be liberated. In a way, Russia does too.
Honestly, things are being managed pretty well.
I had my kids at Remembrance Day this morning. I think we were there for the right reasons. We need to remember the sacrifice made by those that came before. We need to do what we can to build a world that honours that sacrifice. Patience. The easy answer is not always the best.
the West ... could end the war with Russia easily. Russia could not only be pushed out of Ukraine but perhaps the easiest way to do it would just be to occupy Moscow
Napoleon, is that you? 😬
Don't forget the genocide in Gaza that our government is actively supporting
I read these two sentences as being at odds with each other.
Respectfully, I don’t.
Remember the days leading up to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, when anyone with half a brain could see what was coming? THAT was the time to say “never again”, and prove that the horrors of war hadn’t been forgotten: by taking a hard stance and not even allowing it to start.
Instead, politicians dragged their feet, bickered, and accepted Putin’s lies even though they knew better. Now, even the rosiest, most optimistic scenario will have to include unnecessary death and destruction. I don’t think we should take his threats of nuclear war seriously, either, unless we want to establish a precedent of letting any nuclear power commit any atrocity they want.
Instead, politicians dragged their feet, bickered, and accepted Putin’s lies
Also his bribes. These fuckers aren't just lazy and ignorant, they're complicit
Remember the days leading up to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, when anyone with half a brain could see what was coming? THAT was the time to say “never again”, and prove that the horrors of war hadn’t been forgotten: by taking a hard stance and not even allowing it to start.
I'd say the "we should have done something" window was during Putin's rise to power and the (first? second?) invasion of Cechnya. But the West fucked off after winning the Cold War and here we are.
I haven't worn a poppy for years. Arguments can be made that WWI was an important part of Canadian history as it is essentially the start of our independence, and WWII is always framed as a battle against evil (although allied countries were mostly fighting to prevent invasions of territory, not against the holocaust. Canada turned away Jewish refugees during WWII after all). Remembering these wars for their historical significance is fine.
I really don't see how any other wars or conflicts that Canadian soldiers have been sent to can be seen as heroic or deserving of honour. Year after year, Rememberance Day and the poppy are less about "Remember the sacrifices of WWI that lead to our independence and to end the atrocities commited by totalitarian governments in WWII" and more US-style hero worship of the military. A military that isn't used for national defence or to defend the weak and innocent from evil but as a political tool to ensure natural resources from developing nations keep flowing into our ports. I get why it's necessary, but I don't think it should be glorified.
Funds from poppy sales go to the Legion.
Fuck the Legion.
We cannot allow genocidal wars to be pressed in the modern world.
You're aware of what's going on in Gaza right?
I think in an increasingly multicultural Canada, the white-superiority, Eurocentric, colonialist values and perspectives that Remembrance Day conjures up feel outdated and oversimplified
Yes. And Ethiopia. And Sudan. And Myanmar. Doesn't change the point dramatically, except that all of the above are usually framed as internal issues rather than external wars of aggression. There's a legit conversation to be had about increasing peacekeeping forces to diffuse some other conflicts too.
That's why I was so glad to see more feathers this year at the national ceremony. Honestly, even reconciliation aside it feels more familiar that way, and less like footage from somewhere in Europe.
The idea of a day to mark what happens when we let our guard down is good, but the implementation still needs to evolve.
Instead of spending billions on a war machine to try to solve a problem ... spend billions on peaceful resolutions and negotiations.
And don't tell me that you can't, shouldn't or don't want to negotiate with Nazis, authoritarians or any other descriptor you use to demonize opponents. You are right, there are nasty, ugly, authoritarian leaders out there ... but we still need to create platforms to talk to them to end hostilities.
The old cave man mentality of killing people or figuring out how to kill as many people as possible to make a point or win an argument is completely stupid.
If you invest in war ... you will get a war.
If you invest in peace .. you will get peace.
Millions died to remind us that war is no answer ... yet we forget every year and still try to argue that killing people will solve problems.
That was called appeasement, and was tried. It helped lead to WW2.
There should always be a forum to talk. However, words must be backed by a big enough stick, and the resolve to use it. Otherwise those who respect the use of words will just be flattened by those who are happy to abuse the situation. Finding the balance of this is the biggest challenge we have as a species.
Assuming you are referring to Russia Vs Ukraine right now. Russia was using and abusing words, with no intent to match them with actions. If they truly wanted to come back to the table, they would be welcomed. The catch is, it would have to be backed with actions. Pull back to the original borders, and present the evidence they supposedly have of issues in Ukraine to the international community. Right now they appear to just be bullies, and are being treated as such.
appeasement and WW2
It's a bit of a stretch to compare the lead up to WW2 to modern day politics. Back then news and information took days and weeks to reach people and everyone had a hard time figuring what was going on and leaders on any side could simultaneously use that fact to bend and break the truth.
It's a bit harder to hide true intentions of what any side is attempting to do in an age of instant communication.
For the record, I have no love for Russia and it's authoritarian regime ... nor do I appreciate America and its war machine.
Reverse the situation in Ukraine and Russia and place Russian military forces in Mexico to 'contain' America .... what do you think the reaction would be?
Everyone loves this argument but no one ever likes to acknowledge the double standard.
To echo OP a bit, negotiate based on what? You can't just "negotiate" aggression away if you have no leverage. A country with no military has no leverage.
Maybe you're not a caveman, but plenty of people are, and being pacifists will get us killed.
Then you are bending the argument to extremes ... I never said take your gun away to start talking.
In extreme situations when there is no longer any option, fighting may be necessary.
But if the world continually creates situations where everyone is led to only the option of death and war and especially when governments and industries and corporations can only understand that investing billions into a war machine is the only option anyone will consider ... then we will only ever see death and destruction.
We're no different with our mentality a thousand years ago ... we just have better weapons now.
How many would the Nazis have killed if they weren't stopped militarily?
Would the Nazis have come to power if the world's wealthiest individuals, corporations and companies had not supported them or financed them? Check out political movements in the 1920s and 1930s and fascism and Nazism was a fairly acceptable movement at the time.
The Nazi Third Reich didn't appear in a vacuum or come out of thin air, they were born out of the money and financing of wealthy backers who wanted them in power.
The wealthiest didn't try to stop them until their pet project got out of hand and out of control.
Everyone likes to talk about who the Nazis ended up becoming ... but no one ever likes to discuss where they came from and how they came to power.
Philosophically, I am very attracted by what you are saying here. It is certainly something to hope for and not to give up on. We cannot completely ignore the evidence of history however.
Are you familiar with the name Neville Chamberlain and the phrase “Peace for our time”? Neville would be applauding your post. Many people believe his desire for peace allowed a lot of war, death, and suffering that could have been avoided.
The real world is complicated. What you want and what you must do are not always the same thing.
The appeasement that led up to WW2 is completely different to anything today.
The world was negotiating with an ultra right wing fanatical political movement that was expansionist with a lot of motivation .... a small nation with no natural resources, no fuel and no land area. Coupled with an economy that was destroyed by a previous war and now based all their economy on the military and in expansion to new territory. Not to mention that the western nations supported this fanatical right wing movement at the start ... the German war machine was partly funded, supported and assisted by British, American and other European corporations, leaders and even monarchies. Henry Ford is a prime example that supported Nazi Germany and even got an award from Hitler himself ... they built Germany's military trucks leading up to the war ... not as Ford but as a newly created company called Opal. International industrial companies, chemical companies, civilian, military, medical and manufacturing companies all lined up to build the German war machine ... even as they all knew that Germany was not allowed to build up their military again. Aircraft, ships, military equipment all built inside the most monitored nation in Europe after being blamed by the last war ... and the allies turned a blind eye.
Modern Russia has none of these parallels .... they don't have a large enough or modern military (it pales in comparison to the Americans), they have abundant resources and they have more than enough land space. If they had wanted to expand, they would have done it long ago and they would have failed. The only thing the Russians have is nuclear weapons but its a useless weapon because once those are used ... everyone loses. Wealthy oligarchs in Russia and everywhere else only have one motivation to not use nuclear weapons ... money and finances ... they all know that once nuclear weapons start destroying the world, it will take most or all of their imaginary wealth locked up on digital global finances. So everyone on all sides have the greatest motivation to not start nuclear war .... greed.
Chamberlain's appeasement was a false agreement with fascism even when they all knew they were making a deal with the devil who was building an army that everyone knew about (because they were building it with everyone).
Look at the dynamics of the war in Ukraine ... Ukraine fights Russia using American funding and resources ... without America, there is no war ... which means America is fighting a proxy war with Russia. The Americans don't mind this kind of conflict .... they can use their hardware and money and no American lives will be lost ... no one cares if Ukrainians die so the war will continue until enough Russians or Ukrainians die ... or if America runs out of money.
spend billions on peaceful resolutions and negotiations.
Isn't that the exact purpose of the UN?
The same body that, despite being members, is being completely ignored by at least half of the combatants in the various shooting wars that are currently in progress.
The same body that the many countries routinely try to discredit or ignore when it's convenient.
.
I agree that diplomacy should be the way forward, but when aggressors actively ignore and try to subvert the entire process, then unfortunately responding to violence with violence becomes the tool of last resort.
War is the worst form of diplomacy, but can be the only solution if the other party has wholly unacceptable proposals. Given the ultimate choice Ukraine and others have is capitulation or war, what would you have them do? Keep in mind that the last time Ukraine was under Soviet rule, little things like Holodomor happened, so capitulation may not be the life-saving option you'd think it would be.
Everyone likes to refer to history 70 or 80 years ago ... but ignore recent history from 10, 20 years ago when military forces were encroaching on Russian borders
I don't like Russia or its authoritarian government ... but Ukraine was a preventable conflict but the world chose instead to start and then act surprised that it happened.
@ininewcrow I think the problem is when there is no one on the other side with whom it is possible to engage in reasonable discussion. When the leadership of one side have shown time & time again that they are dishonest, untrustworthy, & not even sufficiently well informed & self aware to know when their cause is struggling, let alone lost.
And when both sides see the other this way, & are unwilling to look at themselves, or to see similarities with the current enemy which might be used as a foundation for peace…
I was just thinking about this, watching the ceremony. They're covering it like it's a royal wedding (Look at the crowd! What does this day mean to you, personally?), not a scheduled reminder that it could all happen again if we don't learn from our mistakes.
As for Ukraine, they aren't even asking for foreign troops so I'm more dovish than you I guess. But we should definitely keep sending them whatever they need, and not cut our military budget!!
I agree with defending Ukraine but isn't the point of "never again" is to not have another war?
No, it is specifically about not having another genocide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_again
I get where you are coming from but I disagree in getting involved like that in Ukraine.
Gaza, though, as tough as it might be politically we should get involved to try to stop fighting in any way. Neither side will get what they want anytime soon without thousands more Israelis and Palestinians dying. If Canadians truly wish to protect our peacemaking legacy this is where we'd act, rather than Ukraine which even if I support them over Russia, our involvement would be for our own and our allies' benefit than for peace.
Please don't engage with trolls, just report them and move on. It makes cleanup much harder.
Post locked while I get through all of it :(
we are only marginally involved. We haven't mobilized.
Stop right there.
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we cannot mobilize against another NATO member
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Ukraine isn't a NATO member, and sadly our legal obligation is a matter of political debate. We are winning the debate, but it's slow, and political opponents plan to use this support of a state they don't value as a means to seize control on the next election
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even our hands-off, here-are-guns involvement is not without complaint and scrutiny.
The truth is, we forgot that Russia rules by its strength and we obviously have no clause about belligerent invasions terminating membership. And while Russia is a.member of NATO, no one will consider invading.
...which is good, as the only thing Russia spent its money on was its military. It's like America, but with more corruption and less money to throw around.
This proxy war is already too much while it's also not enough. It's going to ruin our current leaders and plunge us into a populist nightmare the likes of which we've been seeing in America for a decade. Let's not be more idiots voting without the facts, as we already have enough of those to damn us.
... Russia isn't a member of NATO
Uhhh, Russia isn’t in NATO.. it’s quite literally the enemy of NATO.
The NATO alliance was created so countries could protect one another from Russia’s military. When the USSR still existed, they responded by creating the Warsaw Pact, which consisted of countries on or near their border with Europe. In the time since the USSR collapsed, several former Warsaw Pact countries have joined NATO.
Russia absolutely despises NATO, and always has. Putin has used the expansion of NATO as one of his excuses for invading Ukraine (he claims to see NATO as a threat, but since the NATO treaty is purely defensive, I don’t understand his reasoning there).
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