‘I no longer feel at home here’: German Muslims frustrated by Israel backing
‘I no longer feel at home here’: German Muslims frustrated by Israel backing
Many say Germany’s historical responsibility for Nazi crimes makes it hard for people to criticise Gaza strategy
That’s the whole point. Germans hate Arabs and want to transfer the Holocaust guilt onto them.
Do keep yourself warm with that blanket statement?
This is a fact. They pretend Germany is "importing antisemitism", as if that needs importing. And somehow, someone that comes here, fleeing a genocide committed by Zionists, is clearly the real antisemite when they complain about it, because apparently no one could object to this treatment unless they hate Jews for no reason.
No, I keep myself warm with Ben Gurion quotes:
“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” — David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
What an absurd and completely nonsensical accusation. Have you considered that Germany is, due to historic responsibility, far more likely to detect antisemitism and far less tolerant of it?
“There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
Don’t transfer your guilt onto us. Even David Ben Gurion knew we had nothing to do with German crimes.
Germans are confused. They don't want to be anti-semitic, for obvious reasons, but at the same time are so detached they cannot see the parallels between how the nationalist nazi party and the current Isreali government.
We have secret police, kidnappings, separate prisons with own interrogation, civilians are tried as soldiers and they are literally performing pogroms to take over land.
The issue here is of course that a bunch of old dottering liberals are sitting behind the wheel, checking their turn signals and adjusting their glasses, incapable of seeing they just hit a deer. It doesn't hurt that they too probably believe Palestinians should just up and disappear, because it would be politically convenient.
Don't forget the parrellels between the Gestapo police and their entire spy infrastructure. One step away from Hydra carriers.
All I read here is: "I am stupid and could not be bothered to open a history book ever. So I am delusionally calling everything I don't like a pogrom, everyone I dislike a nazi and pretend that I'm a holocaust 2.0 victim. And then I detach myself completely from reality and tell the lie that countries supporting mine for decades and (unlike me) working for a free and independent state actually want to get rid of me. Because how else could I justify my righteous hatred of everyone else?"
Just fuck off. Delusional rabid morons like you are the problem.
PS: Nice touch with the "old dottering liberals" in control in Germany btw... Showing that it's not just history you are lacking in but you just use every term as an insult while obviously not understanding its meaning, really crowns this master piece of stupid narratives.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
At the same time, Shammout, who runs a care home for elderly people in Lügde, west Germany, has become a conduit for information requested by her friends and colleagues seeking to understand the conflict.
The country’s political leaders have spoken repeatedly and without apparent hesitation about Germany’s Staatsräson, or reason of state, a principle that places support for Israel at the core of national identity.
But when this historical responsibility is used as an excuse for justifying massive human rights violations, for breaking international law, then it saddens and maddens me and I do not accept this so-called Staatsräson.”
Khalid wrote a commentary in the Berliner Zeitung arguing that the far right, in the ascendant in Germany notably in the form of the anti-immigrant Alternative für Deutschland (AfD), was far more likely to be behind antisemitic attacks than ordinary Muslims.
For Derviş Hızarcı, the chair of Kiga, a non-profit organisation set up to tackle antisemitism but which increasingly finds itself dealing with Islamophobia as well, the widely circulated speech “was good and helpful.
In November, before the introduction of a fragile truce in Gaza, participants in a pro-Palestinian demonstration met outside the chancellery in Berlin to demand an immediate ceasefire, a call rejected by the chancellor, Olaf Scholz.
The original article contains 1,442 words, the summary contains 208 words. Saved 86%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
It shouldn't come as a surprise that Germans still are racist, genocide-supporting pieces-of-shit, particularly if you know what a joke denazification was. I should know, I grew up here.
The whole society is antisemitic, which is why they support Israel: The crypto-fascists can pretend not to be antisemitic by getting the all-clear by the "official" Jewish representative on earth, Israel, while at the same time secretly celebrating the fact that many Jews would rather go to Israel than return to Germany.
The rest, which like to think of themselves as not racist, have developed a fetish towards Jews and Israel. A kind of "positive" racism, in which Jews (assumed to be one and the same as Israel) are not held to the same standard as everybody else. They should be allowed to ethnically cleanse and have an apartheid-ethnostate because of how extra fragile they are. In a German's mind, all Jews are Zionists, they all deserve to steal land from Palestinians, and anyone who objects to this is clearly antisemitic, since that's basically what present-day Judaism is all about. They're not only playing into the hands of old-school antisemitism by insinuating that all Jews are, in fact, responsible for the horrific crimes of Israel: they're painting a total caricature of Jews and Judaism at the same time. They are, therefore, racists.
And then, of course, there's a the other racism: Islamophobia. Hating on Muslims is a perfectly normalized and widespread, even among "lefty" liberals. And to a German, a Palestinian is just another kind of Muslim, really.
That is the second most unhinged comment I've read here today. What complete nonsense. Literally every single thing you are saying is not just wrong, but diametrically opposed to the actual truth.
Oho, is that so? Have you looked at literally any comment section anywhere in the German-speaking internet (and I'm not just talking about conservative newspapers): There's a ton of shit that goes unmoderated and barely pushed back on, about how Islam is a barbaric religion, they're backwards culture is just incompatible with "our enlightenment values", they should assimilate or get out, and so on. People speak like this real life too, I'm like bio-German and people will say shit like that to me, and except me to agree with them. They're very surprised when they get pushback. Some quite openly, others sort of couched in some way so as not to appear too racist.
And that Germans have a super weird complex about Jews is 100% true. They're like a prop they get out whenever it's convenient, usually to make themselves look humble and reformed. Meanwhile, literally every politician is constantly proclaiming unconditional support for Israel as a "Jewish state", that has a "right to exist" and "right to defend itself", which actually means (though that's not usually spelled out explicitly) to have a Jewish ethnostate, to not let Palestinians return from the areas they were ethnically cleansed from, and to slaughter Palestinians for daring to fight back against what is actually an attack, and not in any way "defense". To deny any rights of Palestinians basically.
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Depends on the reason they support Israel, I guess. If, like in Germany, it's justified because Jews are some special kind of people unlike others, that need a separate country just for themselves, because it's supposedly impossible for them to live safely in our society. That shit is some twisted form of antisemitism.
I have zero problems criticising the shitty Israeli government. There were mass protests by their own people for a lot of the same reasons as I have, so why would I?
I have to say tho, it's also not easy to ignore their point that they are not the ones using civilians as meat-shields and hospitals as military bases, which has been confirmed at least in one, very significant case.
The hard truth is that the situation is way past the point of a peaceful resolution. It's both parties fault and it's bad, but that's how it is. My only hope is that with international pressure (including Germany's btw.) the two-states solution will finally be seen through. Israel already stated they do not want to permanently occupy Gaza, so I guess that's a start.
I do judge them for not giving civilians more time to evacuate and not providing them with more supplies tho. With the amount of soldiers at their disposal this should totally be a possibility. If it isn't, they can ask others to help with that or something else.
“There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
They absolutely have been using male Gazans as human shield, which is something the IDF as been doing since operation Cast Lead.
It shouldn't come as a surprise that the country who effectively eradicated Jewish life in Germany and large parts of Europe is backing Israel. According to Wikipedia there are only 120 synagogues in Germany, compared to ~45 000 churches and ~2 700 mosques today. Before Nazi Germany there were around ~2 800 synagogues.
The German state and every German citizen has the historic obligation to protect Jewish life.
The easiest way to project this outward to the public is to support the only state founded upon Jewish tradition, in comparison to the plethora of Christian or Islamic tradition ones.
That the Israeli government is right wing is imo obvious and Israeli citizens are apparently fed up with it as well.
I hope that the killings end and that there is a way for peace and cooperation in the region. Every person using an ideology/religion to divide rather than connect shouldn't be considered a good human in any society.
That the Israeli government is right wing is imo obvious and Israeli citizens are apparently fed up with it as well.
Why did they vote for them? Why aren't they rioting to overthrow the regime?
I hope that the killings end and that there is a way for peace and cooperation in the region.
This is about as useful as praying for peace.
There's never going to be peace with active settler goals and apartheid, the whole premise is violent from the start.
The easiest way to project this outward to the public is to support the only state founded upon Jewish tradition, in comparison to the plethora of Christian or Islamic tradition ones.
Well I guess that justifies the ethnic cleansing then, since it's for the high-minded goal of creating an ethnostate for Jews. Who could object to that? Are Jews special in your mind to deserve an ethnostate? What about all the other historically oppressed groups? Maybe we should support creating ethnostates for them as well? And ethnically cleanse all the people currently living there?
Every person using an ideology/religion to divide rather than connect shouldn't be considered a good human in any society
Let's assume you can find such evidence, what do you do? The muslim guy in the article claims that far right wingers are more likely to commit a hate crime against jewish people, this just sound very untrue. Why? Because if you tune in to many friday mosque gathering and translate what the imams are saying, it's pure antisemitic hate speech. Not anti zionist, but also anti jewish.
Funny how those people protesting openly for Palestinians without any problem, the people constantly criticising Israel's government openly and in the media and the people equally loudly critisising the German government for their one-sided comments in the beginning are somehow telling the story of how they are suppressed and censored. (Funnily enough the other half also criticed them, but for not instantly stopping humanitarian aid to Gaza... so basically it doesn't matter anymore anyway. The government is wrong by definition, then people look for arguments to justify that statment.)
And yeah, sure. We know that fairy tale about not being allowed to say anything is popular, the other morons on the conservative to right side sing the same song. But it gets really boring after a while. In particular when you complain about not being allowed to speak quite openly in the media.
If you don't feel home in Germany because the support of Israel after an outright terror attack frustrates you or because you feel censored for not being allowed to openly call for the murder of all jews (or the destruction of Germany to create a new caliphate here - yes that also happened and was a reason for some restrictions on protests), then we did a good job for once. Yes, you are not supposed to feel home here.
The other saner ones can happily join with Germans also constantly criticising Israel. We know that there is no good side in this conflict. And Israel's goverment has enough right-wing idiots competing with Hamas in insane genocide narratives (that are at best lightly criticised for their comments when such lunatics shouldn't have a job in government at all) to have earned their fair share of the blame.
Ffs... if you want to honestly criticise anything, then there is enough. Acts from fringe idiots against muslims are happening, just like acts of antisemitism are happening. Most of those are commited by a stupid minority that is fortunately shrinking, but sadly also becoming more radical and visible. I feel for everyone on both sides that is feeling less safe in Germany at the moment (although I really don't think that this isn't a German problem - not when I open international news and get similiar reports from elsewhere). That's something we can't talk enough about so please address those problems loudly.
But people pretending to (or actually feeling) suppressed because they can't call for a genocide openly anymore or who alternatively try to innocently criticise Israel's government while openly associating with those genocidal voices... please leave.
And people seeing a rise in antisemitic and anti-muslim actions rise side-by-side, even acknowledging that it's coming from the same right-wing idiots (like the one quoted in the article), but then turning around and criticising Germany's support of Israel's right to exist as the reason to not feel at home here anymore... get your head checked.
Or stop lying... saying you are not allowed to protest for a free country in a report that actually shows a picture from a recent demonstration, prominently showing "Freedom for Plalestine" and "Stop the occupation terror" banners is either delusional or a bad attempt of gas lighting.
“There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
or the destruction of Germany to create a new caliphate here
You are so close to getting why we reject Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_and_villages_depopulated_during_the_1947–1949_Palestine_war
Oh, I get it. They expelled you half a century ago, like you did with them more than a century ago, like they did a few centuries ago, like you did several hundred years before that... and at some point we can also add christian crusaders to the mix for even more "fun".
So you (and I explicitly mean both sides here, equally infested with hateful morons) chose to fight for the sake of fighting until everyone is dead because you are all too dense to consider another option.
Translation: "We did the bare fucking minimum about teaching our people that we did a 'bad thing'. This 'bad thing' also happens to be a convenient excuse to hide our war crimes in other parts of the world.
And hey, we can't trust ourselves from comitting this horrific act again, so we'll greenlight for the existence of something as barbaric and backward as an ethno-religious state in the 21st century, at the cost of killing and displacing the natives, instead of bringing rehabilitative schemes in our own land.
We'll also make sure to shove this down the throats of other groups that we have exploited, while also making them feel guilty of our crimes, knowing in full that they had nothing to do with it, and wonder in confusion about why they're angry at us - oh, are we supposed to apologize to them by not selectively rejecting other parts of the history? Get over it, shit happen! Also, this will no longer be our burden, and hey, we're the good guys now!"
Yeah, that famous "we don't talk about and don't teach history" in Germany with barely mentioning enough to use it as a cover for imaginary war crimes in all these wars Germany is involved in all over the world...
Is there a common guide to your alternative reality or are you pulling this stuff out of your ass as you go?