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Asklemmy @lemmy.ml
darthfabulous42069 @lemm.ee
Serious

How can a person "rejection-proof" their life?

To extrapolate:

People often say that one should not worry about what others think of them, but life simply doesn't work that way. What other people think of you really does matter; point-in-fact, it can be everything depending on what field you go into.

Like say, for example, you're a business owner and you're recorded arguing with an angry Karen of a customer, the video's posted online, and the internet sides with the Karen. Then, people boycott your business and you're left without a livelihood.

Or perhaps you say something crass and get cancelled. Or simply anger or inconvenience someone with a lot of influence.

Or, even more horrifyingly, say you were assaulted and you came forward, and were ostracized and shunned by your community as a result.

How could one set up their life such that it would be impossible for people like that to rob one of their livelihood? How could one make it impossible for others to shun or ostracize them?

How could a business owner set up their business so that other people couldn't simply shut it down on a whim in such a manner?

EDIT: I'll just "be myself" since that's what the majority of people in the thread want and repeat what I said to another individual:

Honestly, the way everybody is acting is really, really shameful. I am a person who made a thread and gave it a [Serious] tag because I wanted serious, literal answers to a serious problem that, given my chosen career path, will affect me at some point in my life and could potentially ruin it without good info to prepare for such a crisis beforehand. But all I’m getting is denial, mockery, condescension, lies, put-downs.

And it’s rooted in this desire to either pretend the problem is not real because you’re all secretly afraid it’ll affect you yourselves, or it’s because you know it’s real but you view it as a positive because ostracization and shunning people is an emotional cudgel you wield to silence people you don’t agree with on the internet, and answering the question honestly would require framing such actions as a negative and that would make you question the morality of your actions. And that’s not only sick, that’s just cowardly. If you believe cancelling people is morally A-O good, then at least have the temerity to threaten me with a “Don’t speak your mind and mask up” response like at least a few people were honest enough to do.

But don’t insult my intelligence by thinking you can lie to my face and pretend that something I’ve been personally watching happen to other people for over a decade is not, in fact, happening.

Now I came here for a serious answer to a serious problem that affects everyone. If you can't participate in good faith and offer meaningful strategies to avoid or fix such problems and want to either misconstrue it as an emotional issue -- much as you'll do with what I'm saying here after the majority of you demanded I just be myself and not worry about the consequences -- or outright deny it's a real problem when it's been real for over a decade, just don't participate in the thread. Just go elsewhere.

Okay, I just acted like myself. Everyone happy?

128 comments

  • In almost every case, the best defense against this is to be a genuinely good person. Treat everyone with kindness and you will get surprising amount of support.

  • It means you aren't suited to run a public facing business. There's nothing wrong with that, but speaking as someone with a lot of social anxiety baggage there are things I'm equipped to do well and things that I'm not. I shouldn't let that stop me from opening a business if I really want to, but if I simply don't want to deal with the social rejection elements I have to accept that I'm better off letting someone else run that side of a business.

    As for the non-business elements of your question, all you can really do is conduct yourself in a way that you don't believe you'll find yourself regretting later. If you say something in a public place, especially online, consider it part of the public record. It can and will come back to bite you later. Assume your [morally positive family member here] is always watching.

  • In a democratic society, there is no way to entirely "proof" yourself from consequences of your own antisocial actions like if you sexually assault people or something like that.

    I think the answer to what you're really asking is

    • do not be in an industry where you are customer-facing or public-facing,
    • and do not seek a public platform.

    That will shield you from arbitrary and exaggerated mob type/snowballing behaviour, such as the Justine Sacco incident (in which a woman lost her job over an ironic joke about AIDS which fell victim to Poe's Law).

  • Well, my first strategy has apparently been to sell all my belongings, immigrate to the developing world, lose every dime to my name.

    A wiser person might have focused on doing a less harrowing (but still difficult) thing. If we can excel at something difficult, perhaps the world can forgive our mediocrity in other matters, and if it doesn't... well, at least we have something useful to focus on. For me, that thing is engineering.

    I do own and operate a business. Owning the business means I get to invent my own job (which mostly amounts to 'mercenary science hermit'). I'm reasonably good at it, and have the correct legal paperwork to continue doing it, so it's hard to displace me -- I can just go find more customers. If that fails, maybe the problem is me :D

    All that being said, I do use a variety of figurative cudgels on people who forcibly inconvenience me with their opinions (although almost entirely offline). Some of these tools are emotional, some are financial or legal, and many are technological in nature. I do this to defend my freedom to think freely about subjects that interest me, which sometimes people feel entitled to encroach on.

    Mostly this pertains to 'people who don't want to pay me for work', or 'Asian superstitions', because I am nowhere near North America. The current political situation over there is puzzling and fascinating to me, although I am sad to see it causes so much harm. Maybe come visit Asia someday for a vacation from it?

    Oh also I mostly avoid social media, especially for political stuff. I sign on primarily to answer questions travelers have about Vietnam, and help hobbyists choose components for electronic circuits (although Lemmy is not super active in these regards yet). I approach it as training to learn to be more patient with people, and in this sense it has been a rewarding activity.

    Anyway, those are some of the habits I've cultivated to try and make peace with the modern world. Hopefully some are useful to you as well.

  • There is no rejection proof because nothing is guaranteed in life. To be able to 100% guarantee something means to be perfect at something. Nobody is perfect at anything, perfection is only associated with godhood because it is realistically unobtainable.

  • You can't rejection proof your life. You live in a society of people. Your freedom ends where the freedom of someone else begins.

    The be yourself mentality is an illusion or a trap from liberalism. Liberalism pushes individualism to the extreme. To support individualism, people need the illusion of ultimate freedom, the illusion or the dream that you can do or be anything. But it's not possible in a society, so a caveat is added: money and consumerism will allow you to be or do anything you can afford. But it's still not true, it's an illusion to keep you trapped in the illusion. Because you can't get money by being or doing anything you want. Because you live in a society.

    Second point : you cannot please everyone, because it is impossible, and because it will destroy you.

    It is impossible because different people have different tastes, expectations and cultures. And those are often not compatible. You cannot please a white supremacist if your not white. You cannot please a misogynist if you're a woman. You cannot agree with flat earther if you know some science. But you don't need to. Worse, trying to please them would be harmful for you. These are extreme examples obviously.

    Synthesis: what you want is to find your place in your society. You need to be comfortable with yourself, in a group of people who share your values, and abides to the society's needs. You need the society, so you need to obey its rules. But you also need enough space to stay sound of mind, which is space and a place to be yourself as long as you're not too much of an asshole.

    You can sum this up with the idea that you need balance. Be yourself, but don't be an asshole.

    This is a quick and dirty writing on the topic. It would certainly need more words to detail some places.

  • I generally recommend never using social media under your real name. And every business communication (where you need to use your real name) should only consist of bland and necessary stuff. A business, whether as big as Disney or just you, offering a thing from a website or food truck, simply does not need (and imo should not have and not pretend as if it had) values and political views.

    The podcast blocked and reported often revolves around your question (or more around the drama after it happened), sometimes they also interview people who had it happened to them, or wrote books about it.

    I cannot remember a specific episode now, there are so many. In one, a family-owned(?) bakery lost everything cuz they were falsely accused of racism.

    Probably the most interesting and famous case that underlines that simply being a "genuinely good person" is not enough, is the one of Justine Sacco; the woman who tweeted "Going to Africa. Hope I don’t get AIDS. Just kidding. I’m white!" and then lost her job etc., almost got her whole life destroyed (she fine today).

    While it may not be hilarious to everyone and kinda on the tasteless side, shitposting and making jokes should not destroy your life, so never do it under your real name!

  • Have those examples even happened? I'm still not sure what cancellation involves and how long you need to be in that state before it counts as cancellation.

    The internet told me Louis CK was cancelled, but he won a Grammy last year. Kevin Spacey has been cast in movies this year. JK Rowling is still publishing books.

    • It does, and it's a possibility that terrifies me. A lot of the celebrities who are cancelled are cancelled for justifiable reasons, granted (especially scumbags like R. Kelly), but it can happen to ordinary people for unjustifiable reasons, too, meaning anyone who seeks to do anything in life has to live with a sword of Damocles hanging over their head. Meaningful relationships with others can't be built if the dynamics of that relationship include the fact that that other person has untold, unchecked power over you and you have legitimate reason to be afraid of them, given that it's a thing.

      I want to own businesses in my life and even saying that has earned the ire of, by my count, at least one person in this thread. What's to stop them from doxxing me and putting my personal information on blast all over the fediverse, or even old social media like Twitter, preventing me from ever being able to pursue my dreams simply because they don't like capitalism? What's to stop the right wing from doxxing me and sending me death threats if I gain a following and then speak out against them to that following, or boycotting my business because I put up a pride flag for Pride Month? How can community even be possible with the threat of something like that happening to you in existence?

      • As others have already covered, everything we do comes with risk. Some people go through life without spending much thought on those risks, and if they're lucky they never have to deal with these things. Others let it weigh upon them heavily, and it's fairly evident that you fall into the latter camp.

        You've caught on to the general theme though, which is that the more of yourself you put out there needlessly, the greater a possibility for negative things to happen as a result of that. I'm not going to ask you to wave a magic wand and become the type of person who doesn't worry about those things, so here are the best compromises:

        • Quality over quantity with your friends. Find some good people you can be yourself around, and don't stress over having fewer people that you hang out with than others. It's not a competition and it doesn't make you an inferior person.
        • Minimize how much you "put yourself out there". The internet wasn't around 25 years ago, and when it was young it was common sense to use an alias on the internet wherever possible. Use different nicknames on different websites to minimize the ability of casual bad actors to link your identities between different social forums. The possibility of database leaks doxxing the e-mail address you signed up with is still there, but thwarting the low effort attempts does a lot on its own. You can go through the effort of registering with different e-mail addresses as well, but there is a point of diminishing returns here and you need to decide where to draw the line for yourself.
        • Remove yourself from online discussions when it's healthy to do so. Assert your opinion, clarify your points if they need clarifying, and move on. Turn off notifications once you're past that point. Winning arguments on the internet is not realistically a thing that happens, and notifications on your mobile device from an argument will needlessly pull you back into a place of anxiety. Considering how little those mobile notifications contribute to your positive frame of mind, it's best to be rid of them completely if you ever find them having a negative impact on your day to day life.

        Edit:

        • Put yourself out there when you feel strongly that it is important to do so. Some causes are worth weathering the consequences, and you shouldn't let a fear of consequences completely cripple you when you feel strongly enough about something. Will your friends have your back if you stick your foot into it? Then go for it.

      • You're an NPC. Stop behaving like one and your fragile ego won't be hurt.

        What’s to stop them from doxxing me and putting my personal information on blast all over the fediverse

        The fact that nobody cares. Which is what @livus@kbin.social said: https://feddit.de/comment/2037918

  • For me, I've never found it possible. Internet stuff, whatever, but when friends or loved ones turn on you there's not much to be done in my experience. Try and be compassionate to all involved and try to politely explain yourself to anyone, but those who stick with you are the real ones. If folks are liable to turn on you after a social misstep or something as serious as assault, they're bad folks, folks.

  • Serious question for you OP and I ask it in a spirit of... possible solidarity? Anyway: I tend to word things clumsily, flub delicate social situations, and just generally put my foot in my mouth at the worst possible time. It's worse in high pressure situations. Are you like this too, and if so, do you worry a lot about unintentionally sabotaging your livelihood or relationships?

  • You can't. Furthermore, the consequences of "people pleasing" and "conflict avoidance" can do far more damage than the occasional bad rep. In fact, if you're consistent about setting and enforcing reasonable boundaries, you'll ultimately gain more respect in the long run.

  • How could one make it impossible for others to shun or ostracize them?

    When you figure it out you can sell it to Elon Musk for billions.

  • Just come to terms, probobly through traumatic events, that all life is is rejection. Then there is no rejection. There all done!

  • if you try you’ll push yourself into a bad mental space that many therapists make their livelihood off of! I am a big people pleaser so have had issues with over-valuing the opinions of others. One important thing I did to combat this tendency was to come up with a reasonable set of principles for myself so that I didn’t feel like I always had to take what others might think on board (because I’d given myself a reference). Another thing that helped was eliminating anxiety around things I was quite certain one shouldn’t be judged for (in the sense that some things just shouldn’t reflect on your character).

    Being worried about having your job taken away and similar is a bit different. I think the things you do to prevent risking this include not voicing “hot takes” except with people you trust and who understand you, avoiding internet arguing, keeping your boundaries up at work, etc. I think most people have a pretty good sense of what ideas might be wildly unpopular in their locale.

    As a slight side note, things like tenure (in the US) and anonymous review processes in academia were put in place precisely to ensure that people weren’t blackballed for theorizing things that were unpopular or that would potentially step on the toes of some politician who was threatened by your research. Many things that are popularly supported have and will continue to be wrong, so you need a certain self assurance to fall back on. Preferably your self assurance is supported by logic and reason and not dogmatism—but this entails a fair amount of hard work and study and reflection—you can’t just rely on intuition.

  • What you want is something you can't have. Stop worrying about things that don't immediately affect you and take a fucking chance in life. You will fail. You will make mistakes and judge yourself for it. People may judge you for things beyond your control like appearance and personality quirks. Fuck em. There's only a hand full of people who know and care for you well enough that their opinion matters, the rest of em just see a shadow on the wall. Most people don't care about you, they care about comparing themselves to their mental image of you. Who cares what they think. Do you have like severe anxiety of something because this is hardcore catastrophizing. 99% of your fears are baseless. You aren't the center of anyone else's world, nobody thinks about you that much. Sorry to burst your bubble but the sooner you realize this the sooner you can start to chill a little on the worrying.

    • Who cares what they think.

      I do, because those people are either my employers or my customer base, and I need their money to survive.

      If we lived in a perfect world where everyone had their own 40 acres and a mule and didn't have to depend on other people to survive, I'd believe you. But we don't, and as a member of society I am dependent on these people to live.

      And most people are aware of this, and don't really want to give a meaningful answer to my question because that would mean losing the power they wield over me, so the only meaningful response is to dismiss the reality of the situation or wrongly frame it as an emotional issue when it is anything but. My fear over it is extremely justified. People, including rich and powerful celebrities, have lost everything over this.

      Take Sinead O'Connor, for example, who was cancelled in the 90's for opposing the Catholic Church and trying to expose their sex abuse scandal. And she died, her reputation having never really been repaired, in the U.S. at least.

      It matters. It's real. And it's a very, very valid concern. What other people think doesn't just matter, it means everything if one wants to live.

      • I don't agree at all. Unless you are a smelly unwashed hobo with plastic bags for clothes or an absolute batshit insane sociopathic asshole thats a blarant menace to society nobody is going to care if you are a little ugly or not wearing a dress or if you have a shitty opinion about something. this mindset of yours will 100% turn you neurotic if you aren't already. Worrying at the level you are doing is simply not mentally healthy. May you find some inner peace my fellow human being.

  • Become a hermit and don't interact with people.

    People are always going going to give you their opinions, but the best thing about opinions is that they hold no weight in reality, we give these opinions the weight to impact us.

    Now, most of those people who were cancled over nothing or what would be minor in comparison to others, they have regained most of what they lost, look at Louis C K, he got cancled, but he's now back doing what he was doing before.

    You'll never be able to avoid rejection or criticism unless you block yourself off from the world or only surround yourself people who think identical to you, but where's the fun in that?

128 comments