Physically yes (at least in late teens), mentally no. Their brains have not finished developing.
From a less biological standpoint, they're also still (typically) living with their parents and attending school, largely insulated from the real world.
But it's really the brain development that kills the argument. Any argument about whether a teenager is an adult is almost guaranteed to revolve more around the mental/emotional aspects of adulthood than the physical.
Let's stick to unpopular opinions, not incorrect facts.
"finished developing" is a stupid red herring. Our bodies and brains never stop changing. There is literally no point of "finished developing"
Our brains are largest around age 13. We get adult brains along with our adult bodies during puberty. This is a well-known scientific fact.
If anyone is "insulated from the real world" that was a choice society made. Was it the intentional infantilization of young adults? Keeping them locked out of adult society means they stay mentally children. We created this problem. We can remove it.
Parts of our brains don't finish cooking until your early to mid twenties. By the time you are 18 19 you are mostly cooked but a 16 year old still has a lot of developing to go
I think the point is that things like impulse control improve as we get older. This continues to evolve.
'Mature impulse control' would be when the majority of people have reached a level that is acceptable for them to behave 'responsibly'.
I'd argue there are teenagers that have already reached this level, and that there are many 30 year olds left to reach the level, but a best-fit age needs to be decided upon to avoid many with low impulse control being given too much responsibility.
I think I see your point, but I do feel there are aspects that stop this one from being true.
Never before in human history have teenagers been as intensely infantilized as they are in the USA right now.
Look at pre-literate societies too.
The idea that we are children until some time in our early twenties is brand new. Nobody ever considered such ridiculous bullshit until about 20 years ago. Now there are huge numbers of Americans thoroughly convinced of this obviously false, vile, bigoted dogma.
Okay. Let's calm down. You can make your argument without calling it emotional words like 'bullshit'. Talking emotionally makes others less likely to listen to your point. Funnily enough it also makes you appear less mentally mature 😉
Just because it's a new idea doesn't mean it's wrong.
I'd also wager that the 'point of maturity ' is a little high in the US, but not that all teenagers are mature enough to be called 'adults'.
Do people really believe that 20 year olds are children and no one ever in the entire history of the world ever noticed this, and the only people who ever got this right are in the USA in the last 20 years?
Personally, I think most 20 year olds are mature enough to be called adults.
I don't think a 13 year old is.
I agree with most of Europe that around 18 is a sufficient age.
So for me, 18 is the point where people are matute enough on average.
Your first comment suggests you think as soon as a person hits puberty they're mature enough to be called adults. I'm not sure at this point if this is what you meant.
arguing semantics to win an argument must make you great at parties and nothing I said was illogical. Just because you feel you are right doesn't automatically make other points illogical.
Simply put your "constantly changing" is as much a hand wave over complex topics as my cooking metaphor and allows for significant development of cognition and decision making.
frontal and parietal cortices aren't developed until mid to late teens with maturation continuing for another decade. Maturation is an important part to consider because just because it's developed doesn't mean you are capable of using it effectively.
The frontal lobe is generally where higher executive functions including emotional regulation, planning, reasoning and problem solving occur.
How does your brain being biggest at 13 prove adulthood? I think it would better prove the opposite: brains are biggest at that age because they need the space to restructure things.
Many 13 year olds are still pubescent. None are children. Nature turns children into adults. There is lots of individual variation.
What turns a kitten into an adult cat? Puberty.
What turns a puppy into an adult dog? Puberty.
What turns a child into an adult human? Puberty.
This is not difficult.
Whenever people like you go this "its just biology/science!" route they always conveniently forget that the animals you're comparing us to aren't sapient and don't require the time for mental development that humans do. a sixth month old dog might be physically and mentally an adult but human psychological development doesn't end until about 23-25, our level of intelligence requires a longer incubation time.
You pretend biology is on your side by ignoring psychology entirely.
This and puberty takes time. It isn't 'puberty not started' or 'puberty done'. There's also 'puberty on going ' which takes a long time in most mammals.
I want people to respect each other. and unwarranted infantilization is very damaging. Our teens are having a massive mental health crisis right now. They are depressed as hell and killing themselves at rates never before seen. The way we treat them like shit, tell them they're idiots and will be for 10 more years contributes to this.
We've not changed the way we see adolescent development for far longer than mental health and suicide have been rising, meaning your ideas of what's contributing aren't even remotely the cause. You wanna know why teenagers are killing themselves in record numbers? Here's a few quick reasons...
Social media. Influencers have created an entire fake reality that is so impossible for the average person to achieve that they feel disconnected and worthless. The fact that these people make boatloads of money while producing and providing zero value to the economy is also disheartening.
Climate change. It's clear that it's happening, and clear that governments and their corporate overlords are willing to destroy the fucking planet while we can't do anything about it.
Cost of housing. Want to retire? Ever? Hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha. Hope your family is wealthy or has a place to pass down to you.
Cost of education. In the last 50 years the cost of a bachelor's degree has risen 500% above inflation. Somehow this has also happened during a decreased value of education as well (so literally breaking the economics of supply and demand) because every fucking entry level paperclip counting job needs you to have a 60k degree to "prove you have the discipline to get things done."
But yeah, I'm sure it's the fact that 13 year olds aren't considered legal adults (something that's never been a thing in our society) that's somehow causing the increased suicide in the last two decades. Cause that makes any fucking sense at all.
Your straw man at the end is stupid bad-faith bullshit. The vast majority of teens are no longer 13.
There are other factors, of course, but getting treated like shit, being constantly told you're a moron, having your sex life criminalized, constantly being told you'll get groomed and preyed on because you're an idiot, getting zero respect, and having no legal rights is a major cause of the mental health crisis (which happened simultaneously with the change of paradigm from teens = young adults to teens = large children)
Care for some actual science? You're making some extraordinary claims with very simplistic statements relating an interdisciplinary, highly complex field of research. There is not one single point in development when maturity is reached, there are different, simultaneous processes involving different aspects of development and maturity.
(...) For the current discussion, the key point is that there is no single progression that encompasses functional maturation. Neural activity intensifies and reduces, varies quantitatively and qualitatively, in linear and nonlinear ways that are both linked to—and independent of—behavioral differences across development. Each of these patterns reflects developmental progress, but the wide range of ‘‘journeys’’ prohibits a simple definition of what emerging brain functional maturity looks like. (...)
(...) As reviewed in the accompanying article by Paus [5] there is growing evidence that maturational brain processes are continuing well through adolescence. Even relatively simple structural measures, such as the ratio of whiteto-gray matter in the brain, demonstrate large-scale changes into the late teen-age years [6–8]. The impact of this continued maturation on emotional, intellectual and behavioral development has yet to be thoroughly studied, but there is considerable evidence that the second decade of life is a period of great activity with respect to changes in brain structure and function, especially in regions and systems associated with response inhibition, the calibration of risk and reward, and emotion regulation. Contrary to earlier beliefs about brain maturation in adolescence, this activity is not limited to the early adolescent period, nor is it invariably linked to processes of pubertal maturation (Figure 1). (...)
(...) Consistent with prior work showing that risk-taking behavior increases and peaks during adolescence (Gullone et al., 2000; Steinberg, 2007), we found that rebelliousness similarly increases from early adolescence to late adolescence before declining into adulthood. Research on the development of prosocial behavior however is mixed (for an overview, see Do et al., 2017). We observed a quadratic effect of age on a broad measure of prosocial behavior, peaking in mid-to-late adolescence, suggesting that, like rebelliousness, prosocial development follows a nonlinear age pattern that converges during late adolescence, although future studies should test if different age patterns are observed for different domains within prosocial behavior (such as helping and donating behavior). Our findings converge on the hypothesis that the development of rebellious and prosocial tendencies peak during late adolescence relative to earlier or later ages (Do et al., 2017), thus highlighting late adolescence as both a window of vulnerability and opportunity (...)
and teenagers drive the same cars as all other adults on the same roads as all other adults to the same jobs as all other adults where they do the same work as all other adults and get the same wages as all other adults and pay the same taxes as all other adults
for all of human history we have known that teenagers are adults
advanced research into neural pathways changes nothing. they are still just as capable of doing all the things they've been doing for thousands of years regardless of what some morons claim about their white matter or prefrontal cortexes.
the brain is by far the least understood organ in the human body, and lots of clickbait bullshit pseudo-science has convinced people that everyone under 25 is a retard. it doesn't take a genius to figure out that teens would be just fine, if we only treated them with basic respect and gave them a chance.
history is replete with examples of that happening. the current level of infantilization of young adults aged 14-24 in the USA is completely unprecedented. it's a huge experiment, and as their rates of depression, self-harm, and suicide have skyrocketed it's safe to say this path is disastrous, evil, or both.
There are clear obvious scientific facts at work here. They are not technicalities.
How I feel does not make reality real. If I feel like a dog, I am still human.
Nature makes us adults. The process is called puberty. There are several visible objective secondary sexual characteristics which make pretty damned clear who is where in the process.
Nice Freudian slip you've got there. How you feel, indeed, does not make your reality real. You keep claiming it's a scientific fact while rambling about something no professional in the field would ever agree on.
At one point you've learned about one aspect of measuring (purely physical) development - the tanner scale - and decided to forever discard everything else. Keep rest assured this is not how the world or science actually works.
The Tanner scale measures sexual development. Nothing else. It has nothing to do with general maturity, it just measures if the external sexual characteristics have come in.
I wrote "Teenagers Are Adults" and you respond by moving the goalposts to make a strawman. I never wrote "All of the youngest teenagers are always adults" You made that up so you could knock it down.
The vast majority of teenagers are adults. That's just science. The median age of reaching Tanner 5, adulthood, is 14 now. So most of us are fully adult before our 15th birthdays.
So now you are trying to use the Tanner scale to determine if somebody is an adult? There is no strawman here, you are writing those ridiculous comments yourself.
That's not unpopular that's just gross unless you're a teen yourself. Then it's like whatever because of course you think you're grown. There's no acceptable reason for an adult wanting a teenager to be considered an adult.
Edit:
What I mean is that we should talk to them like they are adults so that adulthood sets in more smoothly. I do not think they should have the same rights as consent and stuff like that. They should learn about this stuff but not be able to do them and participate since they are not mature enough to make these descisions. For example, they can take sex ed classes but not consent to actual sex.
I am scared as to how consent is being implied here... I don't think they have the life experience and maturity to consent to sex and maybe drinking alcohol.
If you lock people out of adult society they gain no life experience.
Strictly keeping youth out of bars because they have no "life experience" means they'll never get the "life experience" you think they need to be considered adults and allowed into bars. It's a system for maintaining child status permanently.
So, based on your post history, the age of consent is too high, teens are more mature than what society believes, and we should let children into bars? Bro. You are a pedo. You are trying to justify your bullshit. I will follow you. I will continue to call you on your bullshit. Everywhere you go on the fediverse, I will reveal your nature.