Unironically me as an IT professional who uses Windows. It just works. I have to fuck around with all that shit all day, I don't want to go home and do it too.
As a windows user in corporate IT. It just doesn't work. I spend most of my time hacking my way through useless unix pseudo toys, wsl2, cygwin, mingw... Each one for every tool because... Reasons. And because wsl2 is just painful. So we spend time creating fake unix virtual machines via docker on kubernetes using vs code remotely on expensive linux clusters... Frustrating.
Go home and turn on a linux laptop just to see a real functional terminal. Deep breath, zen, cathartic.
Windows makes my otherwise fine daily work miserable.
I hate enterprise IT. Built for sending around emails and working with excel sheets.
I am seriously thinking about starting an AI start up just to avoid risking another windows laptop switching job (they always promise cool stuff, at the end they always deliver overpriced windows garbage, my 8 years old laptop is more functional than their $ 3k notebook)
True, before i started to work with Windows i already disliked Microsoft, but what they are able to break constantly is astonishing.
While I can definitely understand and respect that, ever since I had an experience where I had to dual-boot Windows for work reasons and the printer that just worked without issue in Linux required a three-digit MB download of a bloated driver-suite with borderline spyware included in Windows, I don't trust Windows to "just work" any more.
Not saying it's on-par with each other, there's probably still more fidgeting with Linux (haven't used Windows in ages, genuinely have no perspective any more), but that experience taught me that Linux isn't the short straw any more in every situation, like it definitely used to be a few years ago.
(Also, was amused when during a LAN party when we wanted to play classic Warcraft III a while back, mine ran in wine without issue, but for a friend we had to deep-dive into the registry because of some obscure problem that prevented it from starting at all in native Windows).
It just works.
Same as GNU/Linux
Except if somebody uses distro like arch just because memes, and then complain on the internet that they have to download some stuff to connect to wifi or projector in this case
Even Arch can be made to "just work".
Install a generic kernel, install a famous desktop environment (GNOME or KDE), don't go out of your way customizing everything. I never had much problem with this setup, maybe except that my installation is 1GB larger than the "minimalist" ones. But hey, I would trade 0.05% of my disk space for sheer convenience!
Except when I start a 10h build before going home only to find out in the morning that windows update restarted my computer in the middle of the night. Or when I can't edit a folder because a file "is being used", then I close absolutely every running program and it's still somehow "being used". Or when I can't turn off the PC because something is running in the background, even though I closed everything one by one. Or when my PC starts screaming because a VSCode subprocess is using all my resources, I kill it in task manager, and it somehow respawns as a process of its own. I can't end it, and closing VSCode doesn't do anything. My laptop became so hot I couldn't hold it.
I mean Linux causes problems too, ofc. I once spent like 2h trying to set up a keyboard to input Chinese characters on Fedora. But in my experience, Linux caused me less frustration by far. Or when a problem arises, I can fix it quickly.
This is not to bash on you for using windows, just thought I'd throw in that "just works" isn't universal.
Fellow IT pro (don't feel like it though) who also uses Windows here. It's not the perfect OS, but I'm kinda getting tired lately of the amount of Windows bad over exaggeration going on (seriously I'm seeing people complain about windows not having features that it actually does have or running into errors that are entirely user related in cause). If I want to sit down and have a 90% chance of not having to mess with anything then Windows is my choice.
In the chance it does mess up it's usually something I can find and fix easily even for obscure issues just cause the amount of exposure to errors and documentation for Windows is insane... That and usually a reboot will fix it 9/10 times.
While I do dual boot and use linux from time to time for enthusiast stuff, and while Linux is now fairly comparable to Windows in "it just works" stuff. A lot of programs still don't have full or even well kept Linux versions. And after getting off of work where I deal with fixing a ton of complicated Linux errors, a lot of times with little documentation or similar error documentation. I just want something that will be reliable, fairly predictable, and also "just work".
Honestly. I'm basically the same I just use a fedora because it works. I tried arch and its cool but I'm too lazy to keep up with stuff at home since I already have to do so much at works. Linux is as stable as you want and you actually can do whatever you want unlike linux
Am same job. I just hop around from platform to platform when I get bored at home. All the shit I care about is on an unraid box. My PC at home is just a toy I play around with to suit my mood.
I have the exact opposite experience. Windows at work just doesn't work. I start every day by clicking away a few error messages (like the KDC certificate or a PIN that doesn't work without any more details) when logging in, then checking for updates and installing them while I get a drink so windows won't force a restart on me during the day. Then I fix all the shared drives we use because they just don't mount properly without help from a batch script. If I didn't reboot the PC for updates already, I restart outlook and teams because otherwise they will eventually lose connection and stop working without any error messages.
That continues through the rest of the day.
When I get home, I can confidently run a pacman -Syu (unless there are nvidia updates) and everything just works. I can launch games and (after a minute or two because proton and excluding EA of course) they just work. Usually better than on windows too.
Oh, I actually meant Windows at home. Windows at work is definitely problematic.
But at home, for my own stuff, Windows just works, with zero setup or maintenance hassle. I used to do the whole Linux thing, had set up dual boot (again for games that only work on Windows ) it was not only not fun, what was I getting out of it? I found myself not even booting to Linux because it literally was not providing me with anything I needed.
Linux Mint for people who have better things to do with their time.
EndeavorOS, arch based, gui installer up and running just as fast as a linux mint, but simply better
simply better
for you yes, I reallly don't like the linux community's mentality of hurr durr mine betterrr. To each their own.
Arch is the truest test of how much you're willing to sacrifice for control.
You get control of everything on your system, but you're basically on your own when it all goes to shit... which from how many of these posts I keep seeing seems to be a daily occurance haha
Hardly.
Gentoo is closer, it's like Arch except you're supposed to COMPILE every package...
Then there's Linux From Scratch. You don't download the Distro, you download the manual on how to MAKE the Distro.
Yep. Why not take Mint/Pop/etc and actually be productive instead of solving the ever so trivial issues on cmd? Matter of taste
Exactly. There's no such thing as a polymath in this day and age, so you're gonna have to trust somebody at some point, so why not put a little bit of the control freak away and accept a more put together OS from the community?
After using Ubuntu for a while I wanted to try out Arch once. Grabbed a step by step instruction and followed it.
Around step.. 7 or something I ran into a wall, because the commands simply didn't work. After messing around for an hour or two I finally gave up at that point. Of course that was years ago, so it might be easier now to install.
But overall I'd rather use Windows, Ubuntu or whatever, give me an OS where things just work, as I have actual work to do (instead of trying to fight with my OS). Hell, back in the day (~14 years ago) when using Ubuntu for school I once spent hours to get HDMI Audio to work, it was a nightmare.
Right now I just use Windows 11 on my desktop (as I game a lot and use Visual Studio) and Ubuntu on a server. I'd love to fully switch to Linux as my daily driver, but there's simply too many features that wouldn't work :-/
I'm often very happy with Manjaro in such a case.
Easy install, nicely pre-configured, quite some variants to choose from (i like i3), and I still have practically Arch running - with some more stable Repos (which could bring some problems with AUR, but I never really had any major ones)I tried out ubuntu about as long ago as you did, and for some reason I couldn't get the internet to work. But because this was before smartphones, I had to boot back into windows, look up a possible solution, write it down, boot back into ubuntu, try it, didn't work, rinse and repeat. After 2 hours I just gave up and went back to windows. It's probably way easier now, but I'm still hesitant to give it another try.
Gentoo goes even further, you can disable features for individual software so they aren't even compiled in.
And you're not really on your own, arch's wiki and forum are really good and helpful.
yeah I think I'll just stick with Fedora.
For me arch was just a fun project that helped me understand how operating systems work and how they interact directly with hardware
I had to laugh at "minimal kernel".
yeah, arch is far from minimal
Driver for VGA/HDMI?
How much minimal that kernel is?
only enuff to boot 💪
This is fake, as plugging it into a projector would imply he'd installed some kind of graphics driver.
It's funny, but memes like this affect the opinion of people who haven't tried it.
They mistake some extreme minimal arch rice for the general Arch experience or the general Linux experience as well. If so many Lemmy users, who are statistically tech nerds, don't see through the meme, then the average person will definitely stay away from Linux.
Why do you automatically assume the person who wrote this wants people to use arch? It's written as a joke, which means it might be nonsense or it might be a real dedicated arch user who had a bad day, or it might be someone who thinks linux is terrible.
This isn't even a pro-linux community so OP probably doesn't care about "affecting the opinion of people who haven't used it".
We're really in here worrying about how badly Linux users are oppressed lol
But it's misinformation and it might lead to some gullible idiot to take it seriously and this it should be censored in the name of making the Internet more safe for everyone!
This sounds like something that could've happened 28 years ago or if someone did a little too much fiddling for no good reason
The average person probably should stay away from Linux. In fact most of them should stay away from PCs in general.
They should stick to an iPad or something. That way I, the family tech nerd, will never be bothered by them a week after they downloaded "hacked Spotify" or some shit, that is now emailing scams to everybody in the continental United States. Most people just need a browser.
It would be convenient in short term. But, once the vast majority of people starts to live in the walled gardens, it would be very difficult to buy a "normal" computing device.
Based, most people today would be just fine with a Chromebook. Not to say I support Google's BS, but 90% of people don't need to do more on their computer then use a web browser to access emails, view their bank account, stream some shows and maybe write a word document here and there.
It's true that Linux gives you control and freedom over your computer. But for the vast majority of people, that level of control is something they don't know how to wield and is unneeded given their day to day tasks.
What kind of weak anon compiles his kernel without supporting the clearly required and already integrated hardware?
It's fine and dandy if you remove coax or something, but video output? Really?
Forgot to enable non-free packages on Debian 🤬
They should come by default in Debian 12
(i use Debian btw)
(on my server btw)
(this incident will be reported btw)
Lol they just needed the driver as a kennel module.
What do you mean they?
He clearly says he's a singular person
what? where? look at the username, that's clearly anonymous, the hacker group.
There's not a man I meet but doth salute me
As if I were their well-acquainted friend
A comedy of errors, act IV, scene 3
Mine doesn't even have usb drivers.
I use arch btw.
Who needs USB when you can have PS2, it's even rounded, it was already at the peak of design
From using arch with the default kernel and XFCE: the only thing that breaks is the external monitor gets the XFCE default desktop background rather than the one you set. Other than that hot plugging just works.
Granted minimal window managers tend to require explicit edits to a config file to get monitors working
You could replace Windows with Ubuntu/Mint/Debian/openSUSE/Fedora for even better effect.
Signed, a former Arch user
You read my mind. I'm currently trying to restrain myself from reinstalling Manjaro, and this post reminded me why I switched Ubuntu two years ago. Two drama free years as far as I'm concerned. And I can use printers without switching kernels! Imagine that!
A lot of manjaro issues are specific to manjaro and have nothing to do with arch. I also had a lot of issues with that and after switching to proper arch, the only problem is nvidia (or stuff that I screw up on my own). Zero issues besides that.
Why the fuck does it say by spez next to the community name? Fuck spez
That’s because OP is spez
You guys realize scapegoating spaz is exactly what's best for Reddit right? He is the Fall Guy and was hired back on after the company was taken over, for exactly this purpose. It certainly not because of his intellect or technical prowess...
I thought that the joke would be that OP is actually trying to pop popcorn because of the word "kernel."
tbh, cause my other comment in this thread were more windows-rant, I had one moment where I felt "alone" in enterprise (i was 23). It was in 2007, laptops in enterprise, at least in this insurance company was not common, and I was the only person with my glorious x60, at least within the openspace :). I was called in a meeting to help to display something, except that this is was my personal laptop, with hardware issue and gentooised, i don't remember exactly the issue but X was not willing to start at resume, even after reboot. I felt alone in front of the senior dev and manager guys :P Of course, it was the classical Murphy shit moment.
Note that this projector was usually connected to one of these HP pizzabox running wintel but it was not working. So I guess I shouldn't be totally ashamed at the end.
This kinda almost happened to me on my arch hyprland setup, good thing a quick search and editing the config file fix it lol. Nowadays I switched to fedora gnome and everything just werks ig.
That's why I use dual boot lmao.
That's why I use Fedora lmao
I was once a minimal arch user and it's awful because nothing ever just works. You've got to build everything yourself and it's a ton of work, and often breaks. Modern, user friendly distros like Fedora work great. Never have to fix anything
Mine only uses some beamers when power is plugged in.
I haven‘t used arch, but isn‘t this the general linux experience?
No, not at all. This stems from them compiling their own kernel for a minimal experience, which no distro which ship for default at all. This issue does not stem from the general linux experience, but the incredibly niche experience of micro-managing your own system.
no not really. Using a stupid Projector is just as easy like on Windows on most Distros. Just some while ago I was chilling with friends and one dude had a little Projector and I for some reason always have my Fedora Laptop lying around in my Car. So I connected that thing and we watched movies. Plug and play. No one even noticed I use Linux. (I mean they know, but I mean in this case they were not reminded or anything) Started Movie, plugged in the Projector. Just worked.
It's not even the general arch experience
Arch is more bare bones by default. Mainstream distros like Ubuntu come with way more stuff out of the box.
This is not an Arch issue at all, this is an issue of the dude compiling their own kernel and leaving out a ton of drivers for the minimal experience, default Arch will have plug and play HDMI support.
