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Git Gud and Helldivers

I've been trying to be helpful on the Helldivers sub. When people say "X is impossible and Y needs to be nerfed/buff I'd go earnestly say "okay this is how it works, and these are the tools you have, and here is how you can use those tools to solve the problem or succeed or overcome the situation.

And, invariably, what I get back is abuse and scorn and insults and incredulity. The poster, and the hundreds of people supporting them, don't want the solution to be within them. They don't want to hear that they have not mastered game systems, that they don't understand how the weapons and enemies work, that they're making mistakes that can be corrected or that they can learn new tactics that will grant them victory.

The problem cannot lie in them. The problem must be external. The game must be broken, or bugged, or the devs must be fools. They are good enough and skilled enough and smart enough to play on the highest difficulty, but they cannot win, so the highest difficulty is broken and the devs must mechanically reduce the difficulty until they can easily, effortlessly conquer, until their "power fantasy" of unlimited unearned prowess can be restored. If they are challenged, if they face difficulty, if they face hardship, that is a flaw in the game. All obstacles must be smoothed down. Their favorite weapon should be the ideal choice for all situations.

At first I was overjoyed at the opportunity to share my knowledge and expertise, to help others learn what I had learned and enjoy the sublime feeling of mastery.

Then i was confused, because the rejection of simple tactics, simple explanations of systems and ideas, must mean I was not communicating clearly enough. Surely, if I only found the right words?

Then, anger. Why won't they engage with these ideas? Why do they reject simple explanations clearly explained? Why do they insult and berate instead of questioning or interrogating? Where is the desire to grow, to overcome, to perfect?

Finally; contempt. I do not care. These fools, let them stew in their own ignorance and misery. What can be said to them? They cannot be educated, not because they are illiterate, but because they refuse the mere possibility of education. They refuse to accept the world as it is, instead demanding from god the utopia they surely deserve.

What can you say to someone like that? What can you do but sneer "git gud" and move on?

I'd never really questioned where the "git gud" cliche that Dark Souls players threw around so mercilessly came from. But now I suspect that I know.

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  • I mean any weapons besides railgun, autocannon and breaker is just not worth using imo

    • Figured that might be it, a lot of players get annoyed that the thing they like doesn't work and tbh that is a balance issue. Like yeah a lot of the items in eg Dark Souls just suck total ass and there's no way to know unless you do a bunch of experimentation (which will likely require farming for upgrade materials).

      • In my august and well researched opinion this is a mismatch between what players expect and what the game actually is. The railgun is viewed as essential because of a missapprehension that every player should be able to do anything by themselves. People fixated on the failgun railgun to the point where they become dismissive of the idea that anything else is viable.

        In truth there are many strats and weapons that can do what the railgun does, often better if you can tolerate specialization. The MG-43 will still be shredding medium enemies long after you run out of railgun rounds. The EAT17 is an all purpose problem solver. There are a wide range of air strikes and orbitals that cover most cases.

        The only stand-out thing the railgun has is that it can do everything, alone. It's not a teamwork or coop weapon. It doesn't specialize, or require coordination of loadouts across your team. People can play by themselves, to an extent, without support from the team, and without supporting the team.

        And what does that get you? A player base that doesn't know how to manage chargers and titans. Players run up against the limits of the failgun - slow rof, limited ammo, the whole "explodes in your face" thing, and it's bugged damage (if the host is on ps5 it's damage becomes massively higher for clients) and think something must be wrong. They will not, say, try running two eat17s, an ac, and an mg43 because they "know" all those strats aren't worth taking. They "know" everything else is useless because they're not coordinating with teammates to use anti-armor or horde clear strats as appropriate. As an individual they don't have enough firepower. As a team of four with a balance of weapons and strats you can kill the whole world.

        Likewise, the breaker. It does everything and doesn't require much practice or effort. So of course the other weapons are trash, right?

        Well, the breaker, like the railgun, is overtuned, and player's expectations of what guns should do and what they're for is out of whack with the game. Any primary in the game can deal with basic bugs and troops - that is to say, roughly human sized enemies. The primary weapons, excepting the spray and pray, are quite good at dealing with small, human sized enemies.

        They begin to run in to problems when people believe that their standard assault rifle should be able to effortlessly blow away 650kg armored alien death beasts and 3m tall armored combat robots. An assault rifle or smg isn't appropriate for them. You need something bigger. The amr, gl, mg-43, jar, and a wide variety of strats cover this terrain. But they're not the railgun, so they're useless, so the enemies are too strong.

        And then you go up a level to armoed enemies. For reasons i cannot fathom people think a 12.7mm or 20mm gun should pen main battle tank armor. They seem to think this ought to be another game where enemies are big piles of hitpoint that you can shoot with anything. The idea that armored enemies require anti-armor weapons seems to offend many people. And since they "know", with zealous fanaticism, that the railgun is the only good weapon, and it's not very good at dealing with armor at high levels, everything must be broken!

        There's no willingness to examine their assumptions or evaluate any of the game's weapons and strategems on their merits. The breaker and railgun are wildly overtuned (and i suspect the railgun is suffering from several different bugs that make it much more effective against heavy armor than intended), but that's the meta and meta is god so everything else needs to be brought up to that level so all the meta players can win as easily and effortlessly as they believe they deserve. Anyone who claims that other weapons are not only viable but quite strong, and that over-reliance on the meta leaves players lacking the skills and balanced loadouts they need to suceed at high levels, is angrily chased away with insults and scorn.

        I don't run the railgun or the breaker or the shield pack or the orbital railstrike or the orbital lasers. I don't like the limitations of the railgun and breaker. The railstrike and orbital laser have cooldowns far too long for what you get. The shield isn't worth giving up an attack strat for what you get.

        The lib pen gives you accurate and precise medium armor pen at a distance, making it suitable for covering teammates, sniping light enemies, or mag-dumping in to berserkers. The jar shreds medium enemies. The lib explosive has massive stun and knockback and deals full damage to "weak points". The punisher and slugger both have brutal damage potential and the slugger has good armor pen. The defender smg is a powerful closer range damage dealer. The drm is very reliable at taking down light and medium bots if you can click heads.

        There are a lot of very capable and effective options, but people have to set down their unwarranted conviction that the meta represents what the game " should" be, rather than bugged and overtuned stand outs.

    • Standard liberator and defender (and knight) are as good as the breaker. Liberator trades some damage to be effective and all ranges.

      Slugger, scorcher and diligence are great, might need to pair them up with the redeemer and/or a guard dog to cover all bases but they outperform the breaker in their specific use cases. (Mainly vs med armor at range)

      Liberator pen, lib explosive and Dominator are underrated because ppl don’t understand how weakpoints, armor and explosives interact, and I don’t blame them cos none of that shit is explained anywhere

      If your team is willing to work together and specialise the other support weapons are completely viable (only exception might be the flamethrower). Crew manned recoilless rifle actually does the railguns job better, but you need to know where to position yourselves so you don’t lose 2 helldivers to sprays/explosions. (Ironically shield backpack on the gunner helps with this)

    • I prefer the Defender to the Breaker by quite a lot.

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