Just a quick post about trucks and SUVs
Just a quick post about trucks and SUVs
If you ever find yourself tempted to buy a truck and/or SUV, just remember one thing: they're not worth it. They're a societal nuisance. They're a massive pollutant. The maintenance, repair, and insurance will cost you a whole lot more. Aside from the aforementioned pollution, They're overall environmental impact is egregious. These monstrosities are best left alone.
If you ever have to do any sort heavy work, rent one instead. Want to live that outdoors lifestyle? A sedan and/or hatchback will do. Just buy a bike and roof rack. Got a family? Again, sedan and/or hatchback will do but also consider a station wagon. Better yet, buy a cargo bike like the Urban Arrow or the Dutch bakfiets. These are way better options to those climate-changing abominations.
I know what I'm writing isn't anything groundbreaking but I'm writing this mostly get something off my chest in relation to a dream I had last night. The dream itself was quite boring: I was driving around in a new Ford Bronco. The thing was that, in the dream, I was quite happy about it. This happy feeling was still felt when I woke up. For a brief moment, I was thinking about buying a Bronco. I soon returned to reality. But I'm not going to lie; the temptation was strong. The temptation was made stronger by nostalgia. I grew up with these kinds of vehicles. My dad worked in labor-intense, blue collar jobs that used trucks. He even owned some himself. But, once again, they're not worth it.
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I think it's funny that you overlooked vans like most people do. Vans make more sense for way more people than trucks and SUVs do. But they have a huge stigma attached to them and people don't want to look uncool.
Except vans aren't actually all that efficient, compare a Toyota Hiace VS Hilux, or ford Ranger vs Transit, and they are very similar in size and economy, with the Hilux actually being more efficient than the Hiace.
The biggest reason so many people have utes or pickups where I live is for towing, and the ability to carry five passengers and have luggage in a separate compartment.
I drive a van for work, and I'm well aware of how practical they are, but it only has one row of seats, can't tow bugger all, and would get stuck on wet grass.
There's plenty of work vans that are designed for a full 5 person crew. Vans can also easily tow whatever is needed for that crew, if the van was specced for it. It's like not all vans were created equal and thus there are vans out there that are not like your van.
OK, but what's the advantage? If the van is the same size as an equivalent pickup, how is it the better option?
And what model of van can carry five passengers and tow 3.5 tonne?
The Toyota Sienna can apparently tow
3.5 tonnes3500 lbs and carry 8 passengers. Average mpg while not towing is 36 too.But most people don't tow anything ever and a van would be just fine.
It can tow 3500. 1.5 tons and that isn't a lot. Not as much as an SUV with a towing package and not even close to a 1/2 ton truck.
My b, 3500lbs. Most families aren't towing anything though. I'm not going to disparage anyone with a truck who needs to tow or haul a bunch. But there are people who don't tow anything and complain about midsize SUVs not having enough space for their family but balk at the idea of a van.
I'm so tired of hearing this. I've met like maybe 1 truck owner who never uses it "correctly". Y'all are inventing some imaginary figure in your heads from a 15 year old survey.
Of the ones I know, they either have big caravans, or rural properties where they genuinely need an off road vehicle.
Having wet, damp gear in a separate part of the vehicle is also useful.
It may depend on where you live and work.
- as a software engineer working in a major city, most of the truck owners I know use it for a daily commute for a single person. I have no idea about their personal time
- the immediate neighborhood I live includes a bunch of trades who are more likely to have a need for a truck, but I only ever see one person driving an otherwise empty vehicle
So wild assumptions based on people who you don't really know.
A truck owner isn't likely to tow every day not into work. Nor into the city from your office. It's going to be going from the suburbs to the boat ramp, or track, or rv campground. It's the weekends away from where they will get used "correctly".
Yeah, 1.5 tonne sounds more reasonable.
Won't tow construction equipment or a large boat or caravan, or travel off road, of course.
The Toyota Sienna can apparently tow 3.5 tonnes
Bullshit. Show me the spec sheet.
Also, people movers generally aren't made to move adults, eight manual labourers would be a tight fit, and leave no room for luggage.
Sorry, 3500 lbs. I'm not arguing that a minivan is a good work vehicle btw, but most families looking at SUVs would be better with a van. That's my argument.
As a former Sienna owner, they are great for families, and absolutely cavernous. Very practical for most families.
Towing is a pop up camper or small boat. I suppose a utility trailer would work, but it’s easier to just fold down or pop out seats and I’ve always made it fit.
Definitely not a work truck, and in particular that third row bench is constraining for adults
The two most common use cases where I live for a ute or pickup is a tradie or tech that wants one vehicle to serve as a work vehicle and a family car, or someone who wants the towing capacity of a ute or SUV. Neither one can really use a van, as trade vans only have one row of seats.
Most SUV owners want the towing capacity and ground clearance of an SUV.
This is potentially more specific to the US, but I imagine even if that is the case it probably affects everyone else by proxy at a minimum.
One of the big problems with trucks and SUVs is that they are not subjected to the same safety regulations as cars. They have high ground clearances, high noses, stiff suspensions and frames, and so on, and these things make them extraordinarily dangerous in a collision. That being said though, they might be necessary in very specific circumstances, for example if you are going off road and/or towing very heavy loads. If this applies to you regularly, like for work, buy a truck and drive it in good conscience. It is a tool fit for your purpose.
But if you are like most people, you don’t regularly tow heavy loads for work, and you don’t regularly drive off road, but maybe you do need to carry around lots of stuff and/or people, and spacious van might be more suitable. And with that comes a softer suspension, lower ground clearance, and a sloped nose that will make the van much less likely to kill people in a collision
For me the biggest advantage is that vans fully enclose their cargo: good against climate and less likely to lose stuff to theft.
For towing capacity, this article gives 3 models that can tow 3.5 ton: https://www.vanarama.com/blog/vans/van-towing-capacity-chart-whats-the-best-van-for-towing
Seating can be however you want it to be. Vans are also used as mini buses, so all seating configurations in between no passengers and all passengers are possible.
Those are all bigger in every dimension than a ute though.
So, I repeat my question. How is a bigger, likely less efficient vehicle an improvement over a ute? Especially considering they can't travel off road.
Also, lockable canopies are commonplace where I live.
Yeah, moving goalposts now are we :D
You'll grasp at any straw and think up any rare scenario to justify your belief in trucks.
Trucks have their applications sure, especially for gardening/farming or other mobile crews that can benefit from having that mobile open bed near them, but for most work crews, vans are the better solution.
You didn't answer my question. How is a van inherently better than a ute of similar size? What's the difference?
And you could drive a Kei truck into the vans with a 3500kg tow rating.
Why don't we reverse this question and put the burden of proof on you? I've already looked up things and proven that stuff that you thought did not exist, did infact exist. So since I put in the work earlier, it's only fair that it's now your turn: you can look up a van and a similar sized truck and then make a comparison in what ways one is better than the other. Stuff like price, cargo sq space, cargo volume, cargo weight, towing limit etc. By using that comparison we will then be able to make an informed decision as to which one is best for your imagined situation. I'm looking forward to your comparison and conclusions.
If the van is the same size as an equivalent pickup, how is it the better option?
Pickups and SUVs are extremely dangerous to pedestrians and smaller cars, due to their high, non-sloped fronts. Vans typically have a low, gently sloped front which is safer for people and other vehicles.
Historically, that has been the case, newer ones have autonomous braking and front cameras, which reduces pedestrian blind spots somewhat.
True, but it's not just an issue of visibility but the height on impact too (head and chest for pedestrians).
This is potentially more specific to the US, but I imagine even if that is the case it probably affects everyone else by proxy at a minimum.
One of the big problems with trucks and SUVs is that they are not subjected to the same safety regulations as cars. They have high ground clearances, high noses, stiff suspensions and frames, and so on, and these things make them extraordinarily dangerous in a collision. That being said though, they might be necessary in very specific circumstances, for example if you are going off road and/or towing very heavy loads. If this applies to you regularly, like for work, buy a truck and drive it in good conscience. It is a tool fit for your purpose.
But if you are like most people, you don’t regularly tow heavy loads for work, and you don’t regularly drive off road, but maybe you do need to carry around lots of stuff and/or people, and spacious van might be more suitable. And with that comes a softer suspension, lower ground clearance, and a sloped nose that will make the van much less likely to kill people in a collision
I quite frequently tow, and drive down gravel access roads etc, so towing and ground clearance are very useful to me. My own car is a CX-5 though, so not a huge vehicle.
The safety rules thing isn't the case here, they still need to meet the same safety rules as everyone else.
It can tow 3500. 1.5 tons and that isn't a lot. Not as much as an SUV with a towing package and not even close to a 1/2 ton truck.
My girlfriend's sister has a van she uses for Vanlife™ and that big stupid piece of lumbering shit gets stored 10 to 11 months of the year because driving it for regular things is totally unaffordable. It's just as gas inefficient and gigantic as the child killers.
I think the point is that even if you need to haul stuff frequently, a van will do the job way better than a truck