And even if the Jews were to win the war, its end would find the unique possibilities and the unique achievements of Zionism in Palestine destroyed. The land that would come into being would be something quite other than the dream of world Jewry, Zionist and non-Zionist. The ‘victorious’ Jews would live surrounded by an entirely hostile Arab population, secluded into ever-threatened borders, absorbed with physical self-defense to a degree that would submerge all other interests and acitvities. The growth of a Jewish culture would cease to be the concern of the whole people; social experiments would have to be discarded as impractical luxuries; political thought would center around military strategy…. And all this would be the fate of a nation that — no matter how many immigrants it could still absorb and how far it extended its boundaries (the whole of Palestine and Transjordan is the insane Revisionist demand)–would still remain a very small people greatly outnumbered by hostile neighbors.
Under such circumstances… the Palestinian Jews would degenerate into one of those small warrior tribes about whose possibilities and importance history has amply informed us since the days of Sparta. Their relations with world Jewry would become problematical, since their defense interests might clash at any moment with those of other countries where large number of Jews lived. Palestine Jewry would eventually separate itself from the larger body of world Jewry and in its isolation develop into an entirely new people. Thus it becomes plain that at this moment and under present circumstances a Jewish state can only be erected at the price of the Jewish homeland…
- Hannah Arendt, 1948
It should be noted, that they want that isolation- and they also want people to hate ashkenazi Jews so that maybe they “come home”.
Nothing breeds internal unity like external threats. Cults- and the vast majority of religions use this all the time, to scare people into not leaving.
Amazing that people saw this coming so long ago actually. Although they're currently on reasonably good terms with Egypt.
Their relations with world Jewry would become problematical, since their defense interests might clash at any moment with those of other countries where large number of Jews lived. Palestine Jewry would eventually separate itself from the larger body of world Jewry and in its isolation develop into an entirely new people.
Is that really notable today? I'd like to read some sources on that. It seems the diaspora keeps supporting them. For example, the big donors who threatened to stop funding USA universities if they don't censor the protests.
In EU, I also frequently read about organizations against anti-Semitism amalgamate pro-Palestinian sentiments with anti-Semitism.Support for the Palestinian cause amongst Jewish-Americans, at least, was considerably higher than the general population of Americans, and certainly higher than it is in Israel.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jul/24/american-jews-critical-israeli-settlements-west-bank
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/04/us-jews-rift-gaza-israel-crisis
https://jewishcurrents.org/recent-polls-of-us-jews-reflect-polarized-community
Spicy as OP’s post is, I’m really grateful that Lemmy is hosting this kind of discussion and debate with (broadly) level heads and good faith, making well reasoned arguments.
Thank you especially to the moderators for weeding out the few trolls and bad actors, and to all of you people for being chill - it’s a refreshing pleasure compared to the former place.
I’m really grateful that Lemmy is hosting this kind of discussion and debate with (broadly) level heads and good faith, making well reasoned arguments.
Lemmy.world maybe, on the more leftists instances you will get dog pilled, personal attacked, threatened of violence and eventually censored and banned by moderation if you dare trigger discussion instead of being a yes-man on this kind of topic.
spicy but true
I understand why anti-Zionism is not antisemitism (as many on the right claim). I also understand why claiming that it is is itself antisemitic (since it plays to the old antisemitic conspiracy theory all Jews are secretly loyal to Israel and ignores the many anti-Zionist Jews). But I don’t understand the message of this post. Could you explain it to me like I’m five? Genuine question.
That's my interpretation, and it's around 18-year-olds (~ my level of study in geopolitics).
Historically, Zionism is a political movement from 19th Europe century that wants to create a nation for the Jewish people as a safe haven from a long history of anti-Semitism. So it's a nationalism centered on one ethnicity and one religion. That goes against leftist ideas (named anti-imperialism in op) which are fundamentally internationalist, against religions and against ethnical privileges. Furthermore, it requires confiscating a land and replacing whatever structure was there with a Jewish one. Although, some leftist people are not foreign to this kind of action, they would do it for an internationalist ideology that they believe would improve the life of the majority, without privileging people of a specific origin.
Reality is complicated, there are many subgroups of Zionism crossed with the whole spectrum of modern politics, from far right who just want to remove all Arabic people from Palestine and replace them with Jewish people, to left people who want to negotiate a peacful two-states solution and oppose further colonization. There are probably also a lot of Israeli who were just born there, have nothing to do with Zionism, and just want to live in peace with their neighbors.
What do anti-imperialist Jew think should be done of Israel now? Any trustworthy reading about it?
Herzl's Mauschel and Zionist antisemitism
An insane document from the founder of Zionism.
