That's not true. Imagine your friend is nonbinary. If you only believe in men and women, you won't respect them, and you'll perceive them as male or female. But if you believe in nonbinary people, you can choose to see them as their preferred gender. You want to call that a hallucination? I call it being a good person.
What's wrong with my perception of nonbinary people? They do exist, and otherkin do, too.
The true debate behind "X do not exist" is not whether the people seeing themselves in this light exist (they obviously do), but whether we should take self-assessment as a valid criteria for defining those terms, or we should rely on another arbitrary framework.
So, essentially, it's not a debate on existence of such people per se, but on how we should treat them. The rest is a set of semantic tricks to convince people of a certain position.
Objectively, there are people who consider themselves nonbinary/otherkin. Rest is politics.
Personally, I do not think treating it like an illness helps anyone or is in any way constructive, and am happy to treat people the way they want to be treated.
Huh, I didn't expect you to accept otherkin. A realist who accepts otherkin, weird! You learn something new every day!
Alright, suppose my friend Saphira here is dragonkin. Now I will make my views on Saphira clear so that any counterargument of yours need not use a strawman. I believe species is a social construct, and Saphira deserves the right to interpret that construct's relation to herself as she pleases. She has a draconic body on the astral plane, and we need to destroy consensus reality so that other people will perceive her dragon body instead of this fake and bad human body other people have forced onto her.
Now I wanna know what you think, realist. Do you believe that Saphira's dragon body, her wings, and her fire breath are objectively real, and that a kinphobe who looks at her and sees a human is seeing something objectively false?
No, such person is seeing an objective reality that Saphira, in fact, does have a human body, but perceives herself as a dragon.
However, regardless of whether there is a draconic body on some astral plane or if it's her mind doing weird things, it makes no sense to get hostile about it.
She wants to be seen as an astral dragon? Alright, I can treat her as one. If I'll ever see her draconic visage, I'll confront a reality that she is, in fact, a dragon, but for now it's enough for me that she has a draconic identity, which is what actually matters in communication.
Okay, so the conservative who looks at your friend and sees a woman - is that conservative hallucinating? You said the only way to change perceived reality is physically or a hallucination. So the difference between your perceptions, are you saying it's mental illness?
Second, conservative doesn't change the reality of nonbinary people's existence, he's just ignorant about it. The objective reality of their existence still stands.
Ignorance, among other things, produces body of knowledge that does not reflect reality.
What's the "objective reality" of this picture? Is it a rabbit or a duck?
You said everything has an objective reality, and refused to entertain the fact that gender presentation is a social construct, so I expect you to be consistent.
The objective reality is, it is a picture that can be perceived by humans as a picture of rabbit or duck depending on the angle. A copy of a printed paper, a set of black and white pixels.
As I said in another thread talking to you, there is an objective reality that some people see themselves as nonbinary, and that's a fact. In a similar way, there are people who consider themselves "male, female, cis-, trans-". And this is reality too. The way you approach it further is a field of social constructs.
The alternative is having the choice made for you, and living in someone else's mental constructs. And almost always, the person building your mental world is a rich capitalist who wants to control you and use you for profit and political gain.
The alternative is to recognize what the real world is like and why things are the way they are.
There are some mental constructs that we do operate in society - it is often ingrained that private property is inalienable, that money and not resources run the economy, that laws are the rules for the functioning of the world and not a set of reasons for triggering state-sanctioned violence, that the state itself is something more than a bunch of people building an incentivised system for everyone to behave in a certain way.
Those are important to dismantle - but we still live in a world that actually follows a lot of natural laws, and it won't change simply because you decide to ignore them.
From gravity to laws of supply and demand, those are all very real, and you cannot ignore them - I mean, you can, but they won't stop working.
The political spectrum is relative, there are no objective points on it. As a realist communist, you're progressive compared to most people, but you're conservative compared to a soulist.
And the argument that reality is real by definition holds about as much water as the argument that the Christian god exists by definition. You see, theologically Deus is defined as the personification of the quality of existence in the universe. What property does your argument for reality have that a Christian argument for Deus doesn't have?
It is the fact that the very word "reality" expresses the combination of what is real, the totality of everything that is actually existent.
We may be wrong in our understanding of reality, but whatever the truth is, it is a reality.
If God actually exists, it is a reality. If He doesn't exist, it is a reality, too. The actual absolute truth about the world is a reality. If you want to go beyond that, you land in the category of fiction, which, by its very definition, describes what is made up and doesn't exist.
If you want fiction to be real, you face a clear issue with your semantics.
Oh, I see what the problem is. At the beginning of the thread, we were all using the colloquial definition of reality. You came into the thread using a highly formal definition of reality and thought we were all using that term. No, we weren't. There's no such thing as what, for clarity's sake, we'll call objective reality. It's as nonexistent as Santa Claus.
Objective reality is the only thing that's real, and we explore parts of it, and sometimes are wrong.
Now, our perception of reality (what I suspect you mean by "colloquial definition") might in fact be wrong, which is why we should base our worldview on the confirmed evidence that almost certainly reflects the way world is (and not say "screw it, everything is real to me now").