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Hello, what would you say the current problem is with the way folks with these various conditions are treated and how can we better treat them and support them etc?

Neither, they are both very much made for tech obsessives with no real advantages and thus won't ever have anyone but those people on them.

Until they have nice features like stickers and have nicer UIs, their usage will likely be limited to just those that think they are more private without having many people on.

I do not personally think that using messengers with so few people on or the proliferation of such niche messengers is a good thing and there really isn't anything like 'ultimate' privacy/security anyway.

I personally think sticking to fairly mainstream messengers is better unless you have accurately done threat modelling for yourself and found you need something more secure, though in most cases these niche messengers won't necessarily be that as they lack the funding and technical knowhow (or just make claims without necessarily being able to back them up), just selling the dream.

Plus a lot of them are frustrating to use due to, as has already been pointed out in this thread, them having such drawbacks like needing to both be online usually or are not feature complete on all platforms if they are even on those platforms at all.

I also do not think that operating over alternative networks like TOR necessarily is more private or secure than just having very good encryption and other well thought out and tested security features even over the 'clearnet'.

At the end of the day I still very much think it is best to stick to messengers most people have probably heard of, though I would still recommend open source ones, I don't think that we need more messengers that claim to be better than the last, just a few really good ones that have shown under various conditions to work well, stand up to surveillance or cops etc and are a joy to use.

I guess I would use some of those words but probably more in describing actions rather than the person themselves, most of the time anyway. As it's easy to portray someone as 'evil' based on a single word in common use that likely oppresses and doesn't see the person underneath the label/actions, which is what 'narcissist' often does for/to most people I believe.

Sure, however, I don't think it obstructs it as much as encourages folks to think more about what they're saying rather than relying on a shortcut in language which in my opinion and it would seem the opinion of those with NP'D' is harmful and encourages harmful thinking.

Thank you for explaining!

Thanks, see you around 🙂

Thank you very much for explaining!

I am genuinely not sure what you mean by the current state of affairs.

However, fair enough and I hope that you take care 🙂

Many 'official' terms have been used and dropped over the years for the offense and opression they cause to those they impacted, it's not unusual to it be pointed out that a term is offensive and that we should stop using it.

The thread, article and The OP made it very clear that NPD or a person with NPD are better terms if you are genuinely looking for better terms which aren't offensive/opressive.

Would you like to explain how?

Yes, that can be better in some cases than arguing and making things worse overall.

Fair enough.

Thank you for wanting to do that, I at least appreciate it.

Thank you.

Oh, I guess I am used to folks with various axis 'disorders' so I can see where @Grail@aussie.zone is coming from as I can see past the diagnosis or symptoms and it's true, being autistic one of my special interests is behaviour so I am more well versed in these things and I can tend to forget that others might not be or might see things differently to me as someone who sees what folks are responding to actually/with a different context.

Okay, I do agree that people shouldn't expect others to acomodate them, however, I think it would be a much nicer world if we did at least try and listen to folk's actual arguments rather than seeing them as a bunch of diagnostic criteria or symptoms and thus instantly dismiss their opinion.

I also do know it's difficult when trying to have discussions online (true offline too) to maintain a sense of civility or to be told that how we have been thinking/referring to folks for years is wrong, especially when someone else seems so adamant that it is because they can come off looking unreasonable, however, I think taking a step back and at least trying to see things from a different perspective can be helpful in making the world a brighter and more caring place.

Yeah, that is fair that folks have the right to argue in favour or against something, however I do agree with @Grail@aussie.zone that not many really engaged with the post seriously and They had to tank a lot of abuse or generally upsetting replies, though not all of it was abuse I agree there. I get that many folks thought it was BS. However, I suspect that is from years of media and conditioning/the general 'zeitgeist' being told that folks with NP'D' or 'narcissists' are evil and bad or yes, fairly those who have trauma from growing up with parents who had NP'D' or other axis 'disorders'.

I have seen great shifts in understanding in recently years though away from the idea that everyone with NP'D' is like this or will always be like this and I am glad. However, I think people with the diagnosis or symptoms should be listened to, even if it is difficult to as they may be understandably upset or angry about such misunderstandings or treatment at those who do not understand it etc.

Thank you for engaging with me on this.

Oh, did it looked like I was claiming you were not ND? I did try to specify Us ND folks, perhaps it came off incorrectly.

Okay, well it did I think come off as seeing them as a set of symptoms rather than a person, but I do understand your attempt at providing helpful context, though personally I do not think those are the reasons the person was upset.

The poster had to endure a lot of abuse in that post and so I think it is understandable, NP'D' or not that anyone might be upset and drained after that.

You are welcome. Please do keep posting more!

Thank you for sharing this. I completely agree!

As someone with axis 'disorder' friends a lot of trauma based reactions leading to diagnostic criteria or various very understandable synptoms get reated very poorly and it both angers and upsets me.

I do not currently have the energy to argue or correct the others in this thread. So I'd just like to say thank you for at least attempting to bring this to other's attention, we need more of this.

In talking to folks with various axis 'disorders' it's important to remember you are talking to a person, not a series of diagnostic criteria or symptoms, get to know them and understand why they think the way they do, working with them instead of against them and worsening their trauma.

Us ND folks aren't all the same and symptoms of a very understandable reaction to trauma are not our entire personality, thanks!

If someone from an affected community is telling you that something is a slur, perhaps it might be better to listen to them as they are likely to know more about it than anyone else.

Those with NP had a very understandable reaction to trauma and it is a shame how they are treated by the rest of us neurodivergent folks not least because it isn't actually useful in helping them out and just worsens the reaction to trauma.

There are ways we can all work together though and one of those is talking to and listening to folks with NP or any of the "axis of different 'disorders'" when they tell you something is a problem.

I have friends with various 'axis disorders' and they know exactly what they need and how they can be helped, after all of this kind of trauma reaction comes from abuse, a lack of understanding and lack of love. Do you think more of that will be useful?

Wow, this is beautiful. Thank you for sharing!

LOL the "Scan to activate a Pride surprise" takes the cake.

Demisexual

Currently I would have to say Becky Chambers at the moment too. I love A Closed and Common Orbit and The Galaxy, and the Ground Within the most.

I still need to read her Monk & Robot series though.

I did like To Be Taught, If Fortunate and The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet

Record of a Spaceborn Few and I didn't really get on well though, sadly.