YarrMatey @ YarrMatey @lemmy.dbzer0.com

Posts

1

Comments

182

Joined

2 yr. ago

A carnist is the opposite to a vegan, the opposing side. If you support the use and consumption of animal products, you are a carnist. If you are vegan, I am interested in how you define carnism. If you are not vegan, I am not interested in how you define it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism

Central to the ideology is the acceptance of meat-eating as "natural", "normal", "necessary", and (sometimes) "nice", known as the "Four Ns"... The arguments were that humans are omnivores (natural), that most people eat meat (normal), that vegetarian diets are lacking in nutrients (necessary), and that meat tastes good (nice).

EDIT: this person is not a vegan and is actually a carnist wasting people's time

Hope the late reply is fine, I had a trip that wiped me out.

1. yes, the mod is being protective of the community. To you it is a slightly different opinion, to someone who follows a vegan lifestyle, it is not really vegan. Like at all. Vegans want to eliminate meat altogether. So if you eliminate meat by having a vegan restaurant, but then bring meat in, it is not vegan anymore. Idk what I would have done as a mod. Wanting meat at a restaurant is not vegan even if you are just trying to attract more customers so you do not close down. It might make more sense if you replace the word "meat" with "abuse, rape, and murder." Would you accept a little murder, even killing children to stay in business? I get it is hard to get a non-vegan to try vegan food, I've written before about how my SO basically refuses to try vegan food.
2. carnists is a real term. It is:

"A proponent of carnism; one who supports the practice of eating meat and using other animal products."

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/carnist

It is the opposite of veganism. They are essentially anti-vegan. They like to go in vegan areas and debate with everyone to try to justify their consumption of meat. It makes them feel good to troll us.

And yes there are people who try to eat nothing but meat, it is called a carnivore diet. I have a family member who is on the diet, they pretty much only want to eat steak. There is a new community on lemmy about it, I blocked it obviously. The mod of said community was whining about their stuff getting downvoted in their community on a different lemmy community. Judging by the amount of people (including admins) who hate vegans on lemmy.world, I thought their community would be very successful.

I get the whole "live and let live" thing about a difference in opinion on who the best character on a show you are watching is. But when it involves actual lives, I think it's time to speak up. Vegans are annoying because they want people to stop killing animals for consumption and people would rather vegans just shut up and go away so they can enjoy their meat without thinking about where it came from, that's it. Talk about veganism outside of a vegan community and be prepared to get ratioed.

When I go to a vegan community, I don't want to debate with carnists. I would consider that trolling. There are other places meant for debating. Vegan communities are basically safe spaces to talk with other vegans and people that want to be vegan.

Too many carnists troll the vegan communities, they created this problem. I first joined lemmy during the reddit exodus on a .world account. The vegan community at that point was poorly moderated and most of the comments were carnists circle jerking about how eating meat is so great to them. Finally, active people took over and it became so much better to actually browse that community once these trolls were banned. This behavior is nothing new btw, I've seen assholes on reddit and facebook do the same to vegan spaces. You'll notice I'm no longer on .world, I disagree with their modding practices and lately I feel even more justified in leaving that cesspool.

I want vegan news, vegan recipes, and vegan discussion. I do not want carnists coming in, at all. People can come in asking genuine questions about veganism, but no debating whatsoever. I do not mod any of these communities btw, but this is what I want as a user.

It seems hostile to you because you have not had to deal with the constant carnist trolls. People who complain vegans are militant or hostile is a red flag for me, it really means that vegans are too unapologetic about their veganism instead of being passive people who don't rock the boat or question the status quo. These people are defensive about vegans pointing out that they are consuming products made from abuse, rape, and murder. They want to be treated with kiddie gloves. Sorry, but no vegan is obligated to do so.

I am super confused by your comments. It is cheaper to be vegan. I'm on welfare benefits for one person and am able to afford being vegan plus afford food for my non-vegan SO. Your comment about vegan cheese that doesn't melt sounds like you haven't tried more different vegan cheeses; for example if you want vegan mac n cheese you would make a vegan cheese sauce, not throw in a block of vegan cheese from the store and lament how it doesn't melt. I have not needed dairy cheese for my meals, for burritos or burgers or anything like that and do not miss the taste or texture of dairy cheese. I also don't consider vegan ice cream inferior, honestly you sound anti-vegan. Maybe you are just venting in defense but this is pretty much the language I would expect from my carnist family members.

It sounds like you don't care about the morality of veganism (something I care very much about), that you did it more for the environment and once you felt inconvenienced you abandoned it. I do feel sad for you because not only is it cheaper to be vegan, but it can be delicious and you are not harming animals in order to do so. Do you still buy store eggs? I have a family member with about 7 hens and they still have to supplement with store eggs. The abuse cows go through for humans to have dairy (and meat obviously) is unacceptable to me. Yes, capitalism needs to be abolished, but in the meantime animals are dying by the millions every year.

It is very hard to get people to change, but I don't think we should just give up on it. A lot of people do not have open minds about veganism, it's gotten to the point that I hate bringing it up. And I am tired of arguing with my SO over it, that could really be its own post lol. I really only feel safe talking about veganism online, but that's at least a first step.

Because the one thing a vegan community (meant specifically for vegans) needs is carnists coming in to troll everyone into debating them, it's just a little dissent that totally won't turn the community into a hostile environment /s

I also think dronerights (dronegender/swarmgender), grail (goddessgender), and drag (dragonrider /dragonfucker) are the same person. Hexbear has been calling this out for a while now, it's how I even know about these users. There's other users they also think are alts like mindtraveler and pm me fat enbies. Blajah bends over backwards to protect them until they do something so offensive for so long that they are banned and the bit continues in another account. Some of the accounts claim to suffer from NPD. I don't know what to make of it other than I try to ignore them.

I insulted no one, wth? It is hard depending on where you live, that's why I told them to research. You think I live in a place with a Latino community? Most people in my entire county have never heard of Puerto Rico where I live. I've never run into anyone speaking Spanish in the wild. It is nonexistent. I think it's weird you assume there are a bunch of Mexican families running authentic Mexican restaurants in every city in the US. You have to find the hubs yourself and see if it is truly what you are looking for.

And just because a Mexican family has a restaurant does not mean it isn't like Tex-Mex or another variety of Mexican-American food. Mexican families didn't all agree to only serve one type of Mexican food, authentic or not.

I've read their stories and have my own, there is no help. Therapy, medication, mental ward visits, physical therapy, etc. don't help. Some issues are definitely caused by society, but it is not realistically possible to change society radically enough and soon enough to help. They feel there is no help because there is indeed no help, I also hold this view for myself.

I am not talking about someone going through a breakup reacting on impulse, I mean people who have been mentally ill for years. People with chronic conditions. People who are in pain.

And what happens when your mental health crisis has lasted for several years, decades even? It is possible to not be terminally ill or old and still rationally decide you want to die due to chronic illness or other issues, even if your issue is purely mental illness. You should be able to die with dignity, peacefully - not after forking over a pretty sum over sketchy websites hoping to get the right peaceful pill that every government has banned or a poison + medication combo so that you'll die puking your guts out but hopefully you won't puke the poison out and successfully die.

There is no help for so many people wanting to die, they've exhausted their options. Some are so desperate they buy what they think is a peaceful pill but is instead rat poison. Mental hospitals do not help these type of people, if these places help at all.

Nah mental hospitals are prisons, it might feel nicer when you have control but on the other side it is a nightmare.

There is an american version of Mexican food widely available (Mexican-American), for example you mentioned taco bell in america but this is not authentic Mexican food (also taco bell has been open for decades in america). It will be hard to find actual authentic Mexican food here, you would have to really research and visit yourself. Even when I lived in a city near the border of Mexico I would still have to cross the border for authentic Mexican food but there was plenty of Tex-Mex around since that was popular. In my current area I've seen a couple of businesses open specifically offering authentic Mexican food or even Puerto Rican food and each time it was not authentic, and the "authentic" "Puerto Rican" food was usually gross and nothing like food back in PR.

I hate dealing with some types of men, it's exhausting.

In that case, yes I agree.

What do you mean gender exists in the brain? It's my understanding there is small but insignificant differences between cis men and cis women brains, so why would a trans person have a brain that "proves" they are more like a man or woman? What does a non-binary brain look like? A lot of early science tried to paint women as having inferior brains than men, women are more emotional while men are more rational because men have slightly bigger, heavier brains. The research is at best inconclusive.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00677-x

I can understand trans people might feel some euphoria about it but I don't buy the whole boy/girl brain thing. Trans people are valid and can benefit from transition however they choose to do so. I guess maybe I am a radical because I think gender as a social construct (like all the roles men and women have) is dumb and should be abolished.

I tried looking up more about this and this wiki mentions hormone differences, everything else looks very much debated.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_sex_differences

Memento mori = Remember you will die

Learned it while playing persona 3.

I think it is lashing out to ban people for no reason. They were so upset by the trolls that people with legitimate criticisms were banned (which Zoot says they never had an issue with, it was only trolls they did not like) and then people just curious about the mod and asking questions were also banned.

Sorry, I seem to be misunderstanding you because I do not know what you quite mean anymore. You said "that's how they read, especially when you compare their comments to the reddit post i linked. not even the sympathy for a person who leaves explains the difference to me" which I thought meant there was an overwhelming amount of people who were trolls for not having sympathy for the mod author leaving. Now you are saying that people were criticizing too much in the other threads, and I'm not sure what is being shrugged off as sympathy.

I typed a long ass comment on my phone and summit crashed not saving any of it, fucking hell. Anyway I have to refind all the comments again.

Here is where:

u/WoodenRocketShip

People absolutely dragged the mod and the mod author when the update with her boyfriend came out. Normally if people got that mad over something that happens in a mod you'd get pushback from others saying that it's just not for you and it's not your place to judge, but the mod author was also silencing critics and absolutely going off with her army of followers, so yeah no pushback everyone was on the same page. For a couple of weeks she and her mod were the big bads of this subreddit.

u/Live_Hippo_5885

That's a bit wild silencing your critics changing her race and backstory is a bit drastic but it's their mod I suppose, I don't really care that she has a boyfriend I like having a bro to adventure with dude's just kind of a dick imo.

u/WoodenRocketShip

Yeah see if it was just that, then I'd just chalk it up as a mod that I'm uninstalling and never thinking about it again as I barely liked Daegon before. If the mod author didn't go around silencing criticism in the mod's comments, some of which wasn't even criticism and was from genuine fans curious about certain things, then I don't think many people would have said anything.

People on this thread claimed they were banned for not liking the mod, asking questions about the mod, etc. before the comments section was removed altogether.

The context of the discord image joking about doxxing given by the Zoot guy defending the mod author is that it was a random discord user who they did not know who was known for being overdramatic and later on they think someone else told the user to cool it. Doxxing is serious to me so I do not think this context absolves the image, it feels worse since the mod author doesn't even know the person and just gleefully agrees with them to the point another rando has to tell them to stop. I think the mod author is immature and the random user probably a teenager. It's the only thing that makes sense why they would joke like that. I'm not digging for the discord, I've not only already wasted enough time with this comment since summit crashed on me but also find it a waste of time.

The thread talking about the mod author leaving was very sympathetic. My original comment had the top 9 or 10 comments and a few replies from the thread to prove to you that it was not overwhelmed by trolls. But there is no way I'm doing that again. Just read it yourself. If you still think they are not sympathetic enough then something is seriously wrong with your interpretation.

This is a both sides suck here for me.

I read a few of the reddit threads and there were legitimate criticisms that the follower started out cringey and edgy but a lore-friendly bratty elf and then after some big update the follower was turned into an over-the-top melodramatic edgy super evil non-lore-friendly entity (vampire demon dragon princess from another reality that is more powerful than any of the gods of TES) who now had a boyfriend equally evil with many voice lines about how much the two of them were horny for each other, and like to burn down inns full of people for fun.

There were some cringey guys upset they were being cucked, too many gamers in general are obsessed about the possibility of being cucked by some pixels and are ridiculously fragile about it.

But the mod author lashed out at both the trolls and people caught in the crossfire, the community became more upset, just an angry cycle. People asked about being able to download the old version before the changes since the mod author hid the older version - Nexus doesn't allow mod authors to delete their work anymore so people's mod lists don't break but they for some stupid reason allow mod authors to hide older versions from users which can only be accessed by having the right link and it is a pain to get. Eventually the mod author releases the older version again as its own mod. But at this point the community hates them because of an image showing someome on the mod author's discord talking about doxxing anyone who upset the mod author which the author offered gleeful support of.

There was a guy in the thread (ZootAllures9111) who said he helped develop and code the mod (you quoted him in your comment) and he said that practically all criticisms were trolls from kiwifarms, and that the person who wanted to doxx others on the discord was just being silly and edgy and only disingenuous people would take their silly edginess at face value. Also that they won't play "this game with you" when asked how the mod author responded to this person wanting to doxx people because (CW:transphobia) the only image you need to look at is some random troll on a website called kiwifarms complaining about being a third wheel to two horny NPCs in the mod and something about being a cuck and that other followers don't need sex to sell basically. Then when someone in the reddit thread asks why they keep posting and deleting their same comment with someone else chiming in confirming they also noticed this, the guy offers a reasonable explanation about network issues and then says, "I remember you from the comment sections of our mods now by the way, you are exactly as disingenous as I thought yesterday and you're not gonna get anywhere pretending otherwise." Which the innocent guy replies, "You should maybe take a break because you’re getting paranoid now. I’ve never used your mod, have no intention to, and the first time I’ve heard of all this drama was when this thread came up."

Why mention this? Because I think it is shitty to "joke" about doxxing people and defend this "joking" and call everyone speaking out a troll from kiwifarm and I can see why the community doesn't like the direction the author took and how annoying it is to not be able to go back to an older version of the mod. And I've read the threads, they were not overwhelmed with trolls unless you think people who criticize a mod author are always trolls. But I also think it is shitty and unacceptable how much harassment the author got. They are not the first author to get harassed off of Skyrim modding, even Vilja's author was chased off for IMO stupid reasons. The Skyrim modding community is full of assholes, both mod authors and users alike. It used to be routine how many mod authors would lose their shit and delete their mods.

Rest of article: