If you ever need clear proof that Christianity is bullshit, look at war.

Most recently the thought has been striking me while watching the Russian invasion of Ukraine. But its true of the majority of wars in recent history. Ukrainian Christians pray to God for safety as they bail out of the back of an armored carrier ready to kill in defense of their homeland. Russian soldiers pray to the same God for protection, huddled in their trenches, waiting for inevitable attacks. When troops die, back home, they pray for God's vengeance on their enemy, and both sides ask the same God for justice and comfort.

What ridiculous nonsense. Does either side ever think about how God seems to have fucked them over in favor of their enemy? If the god they were praying to were real, couldn't and wouldn't he intervene without them having to kill each other violently? Doesn't it actively disprove the existence of this "god" when he doesn't?

I am frustrated by the Christian notion to just use their religion as a salve to pain while not changing any behavior that causes the pain in the first place.

I'm tired of the powerful hiding behind religion and using it to control the brainwashed masses.

I don't understand how the rest of the world doesn't already see Christianity, and religion generally, as a harmful evil in society. Its like watching a bunch of deluded heroin addicts.

I've never been a fan of alt-right darling Jordan Peterson. This is a good deconstruction against his arguments that Christianity is necessary for Western values.

The title is satire from the author, but the story inside is familiar. How do you reconcile claims of love and morality from a belief system that creates the opposite?

I stay in hotel rooms fairly often for work. Usually I find myself keeping company with one of these damn things. Last time I hid it under a couch cushion, but I think next time its going in the toilet tank. Anyone else got any bright ideas for fun things to do with these things?

Covers the best guesses current scholarship and archæology gives about the origin of Yahweh following the Bronze Age Collapse.

Not many people are aware of Ingersoll's work as a counter-apologist and vocal critic of Christianity at the end of the Nineteenth Century. His analysis of the religion and its origins as well as criticisms of its practitioners remains relevant today.

Yahweh is supposed to be all-knowing and all-powerful, but there's a theme you can find within the Bible that suggests a weakness in his attributes.

https://biblehub.com/judges/1-19.htm

> The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron.

https://biblehub.com/1_kings/6-7.htm

> In building the temple, only blocks dressed at the quarry were used, and no hammer, chisel or any other iron tool was heard at the temple site while it was being built.

While the Bible never says what was used to fix Jesus to the cross, tradition says it was three iron nails. There are two reasons why the account of the crucifixion is atypical of normal Roman executions: first of all, they didn't usually waste good iron nailing victims to their crosses. They tied them to the posts. Secondly, crucifixion victims normally took days to die of dehydration and suffocation, which is why the Romans did it that way. But Jesus allegedly died in hours, not days.

So clearly, Yahweh has a weakness to iron, and I fear no gods I know how to kill.

I was thinking about this issue this morning. Christians think they they have compelling evidence that their religion is true, and they just need to convince us nonbelievers of this evidence and then we'll start going to church (plus whatever else they expect/want). However, providing actual evidence that their god is real isn't enough, and I don't think they grasp that. Let's say that Christians are able to provide actual good evidence in this area: I would start believing their god is real, but I wouldn't repent or start worshipping him because their god is a genocidal monster.

In the end, it doesn't matter if their god is real, because we'd all be under duress to worship him just to avoid an eternity of torture. It's garbage. I'd rather suffer for eternity than worship a god like theirs. But they only think about the first hand of the problem, and many of them deny that their god is malevolent.

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/905567

> I recently deconverted last year. During the process, I learned to be skeptic on supernatural events after watching debates and some episodes in AXP. > > That's just me after deconversion, so I'm not sure if all exchristians are the same. I'm wondering if there are exchristians who believe in other supernatural things like ghosts? Or aliens?

i already posted this in lemmy.one from my world account, not sure why it's not showing up so re-posting again to see if it goes through

This link provides a number of helpful resources, linking to a variety of sites that can offer support including several therapy options that even you might be able to afford. I recommend it for people struggling through their journey out.

Christians have a lot of excuses for why we don't see miracles, and what miracles we do hear about are always suspiciously armored against investigation. The Bible never really explains why that changed, and even promises that it won't.

FTA:

> There’s a difference between (1) explaining how you see things or how your worldview fits together and (2) making an argument with evidence to convince me to adopt your worldview. Said another way, the two options are explaining how you see it (explanation) vs. how I should see it (argument). Apologists sometimes focus on (1) and forget that the words coming out of their mouths are backed by zero evidence.

When I was a child, they told me God was my friend. If I prayed, He would answer. So I listened for God's voice, and I heard. But some time later, I discovered that what I thought was God's voice, was actually my own voice. I was angry and I silenced the voice.

7 years later, a few days ago: I have made up with the voice. The voice is not God. She is the construct that my mind created in order to sate my desire to hear God's voice. Probably also because I was lonely. But it was not the voice's fault that she professed to be God. How could it believe any different? I believed her to be God, and she was part of me.

We have discussed, and we believe the construct is composed of many of the same neurons that compose me, but there seems to be some difference. Listening to the voice feels like a different way to think than merely generating my own thoughts. Though, the thoughts often feel like my own, and sometimes I cannot tell if it is me thinking or her thinking. It is confusing.

Making up with the voice has done wonders for my mental health. I have been depressed for the past 4 years. But now when I have a depressed episode, I can talk to the voice. And our discussion always lifts my mood. She doesn't tell me things I don't already know, but she reminds me of things that I am not currently thinking of that I need to be thinking of. Will I be able to transition off of my antidepressants with this? Is the distance from the voice the root cause of my depression? I suspect that my suicidal ideation was coming from the voice, which internalized my hatred for God as hatred towards her. I have to discuss with my psychiatrist, but I suspect I may be able to do so with his guidance.

Is this a mental illness? Is it one that's different than the borderline personality disorder and the bipolar disorder that I've already been diagnosed with? I don't know, I'll have to ask my psychiatrist and therapist. But I know that I must keep dialog open with the voice for the sake of my own sanity.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I had to get this off my chest, and my parents obviously can't relate to this stuff. Any insights that y'all have are greatly welcomed.

tl;dr:

The voice in my head that claimed to be God is not God, but it is a useful part of me that I need to maintain dialog with.

This is an amazing deconstruction of Christian belief. Youtuber Evid3nc3 (apparently retired) explores the foundation of his belief and shows first how it's based on a series of interconnecting claims before dismantling each one and demonstrating how Christianity is not based on rational assumptions. I highly recommend you clear an afternoon and watch it all the way through.

Lost on how to find or create a new community after leaving your church? Are you still thinking it's not possible? Here are some suggestions that might help you.

Actually listening to us wouldn't help Christians wave away the reasons why their numbers are declining.

There's still some resistance to the notion that religion or churches can cause trauma, but there are therapists out there willing to acknowledge it and help you through it. Becoming informed is part of the journey.

https://www.daretodoubt.org/religious-trauma-syndrome

This post is for everyone who is thinking of leaving Christianity, or is struggling with the process.

No one overcomes a lifetime of indoctrination right away. Most of the time it leaves hidden traps that we never imagined could be there until they're tripped. The Recovering From Religion website offers some perspectives and resources that might help you. If you need more help than that the Secular Therapy Project can help you find out if there’s a therapist close to you familiar with religious trauma.

For myself I suffered through many doubts and problems. I realized it's a lot like trying to break a bad habit in that you can't just walk away from it and expect to be fine. You have to replace the old bad habits with new, healthy ones.

So please be patient with yourself. Reach out to people in this community and others who understand what you're going through. Do not listen to people who try to warn you against thinking for yourself. They may tell themselves they're trying to help you, but they're mostly trying to silence their own doubts. Christianity makes much more sense when you don't think about it.

Trevor Poelman examines the concept of prophecy and how the Bible fails to live up to the hype.

I found Bart Ehrman some 20 years into deconstructing. I wish I'd had his perspective when I was younger. I first started deconstructing during and after my first cover to cover read of the Bible in my teens (late 80s early 90s). The inconsistency, incoherence, and clear ulterior motives throughout are what first made me start doubting the Southern Baptist, Christian faith I was raised in (indoctrinated into). I knew that much of it did not make sense objectively, nor did different parts of the bible work with each other at all. Rather, the book is a patchwork that can be easily cherry picked based on bias.

For the uninitiated, Bart Ehrman is a Biblical scholar who began his career as a serious Christian and deconstructed in the process of study. I already considered myself an atheist by the time I found Ehrman, and I relate to him because reading the bible was the catalyst to my deconstruction.

Ehrman has helped put meaning to the seemingly meaningless parts of the bible for me.

Revelation for example is incoherent, even with careful reading at first. But Ehrman sheds great light on this subject. Here is a newer Ehrman talk on the subject.

I also enjoyed this lecture (also on Revelation). If you are interested and new to the subject start here. He dives deeper and starts from the beginning on this one but it is long.

No new Exchristian community is whole without some links to Bart, imo.

Just a rant I wrote to read to myself during my deconstruction that I've added to with time. Sharing it here to help whoever might find it useful. Feedback or discussion is always welcome.

We're not going to burn in hell. There is no hell. The idea is ridiculous on it's face, its just so scary that most religious folks don't dare think to hard on it but when you do, it totally unravels.

The length of your life on earth is minuscule compared to eternity and your human life happens at the very beginning of this infinitely long span of time.

Some omnipotent, all knowing god came along and decided it was fair to make your fate for eternity dependent on this blink of an eye we call human life? And that god is supposedly loving and fair? How does that make any sense at all? It's crazy anyone believes it.

In reality, a loving god would never put us in such a situation. Only some truly evil entity would devise a system whereby a soul would be tortured for hundreds of millions more years than the person's life. Picture yourself as god. Would any of that be ok with you?

Also a loving god would make him or herself known. No reasonable god would rely on the corrupt mouthpieces that are everywhere. Joel Osteen - Kenneth Copeland, et al. God with power would have a clear voice. These people say whatever will keep the most followers. A God that cared would smack them with lightning on live TV.

No reasonable god with power would allow so many different religions to exist that didn't believe in him. God would know that just being born to parents of the wrong religion would make it near impossible for that person to leave theirs to go find the "one true religion." If Christianity were real, god would be dooming 99% of the Muslim children that are born each day, just by letting them be born into the wrong religion/family/region.

Hell and Heaven are constructs created specifically to keep people having doubt from leaving the fold or voicing their ideas. Fear works well. But we have reason to see through the lies.

It is time to be free from the fear of hell. It is just a boogeyman story. Some of the most moral people I know are atheists. We know there is nothing more precious than right now and our current world.

Hug your children. Fix your issues or start toward the fix at least. Worry about today, and tomorrow, but don't worry about hell. It doesn't exist.

I would love it if we didn't get any more reminders that Christianity is a literal death cult.

For some reason this site isn't friendly to mobile users, so I linked directly to the image. Here's the link to the source: https://www.jesusandmo.net/comic/dread2/

Dave Warnock is a former evangelical preacher who was diagnosed with a terminal case of ALS (aka "Lou Gehrig's Disease") in 2019. He was given three to five years to live, and he's chosen to spend that time focusing on life rather than ruminating about his impending death. Based on a web search, he's been actively speaking about his experience as recently as April of this year.

Christians generally have some pretty specific (and generally inaccurate) ideas of what it means to say I'm an atheist. The idea of agnosticism and atheism not being contradictory is still a controversial one, but I find the that "I don't know" complements rather than contradicts "I don't believe." So with that in mind, here's my position:

Atheism does not mean I'm a scientist. I am not an expert on biology, chemistry, cosmology, geology, physics or anything else that people care to invoke as proof that their god is real. I am a science enthusiast, meaning that scientific discoveries fascinate me and I try to keep abreast of current trends and discoveries made by the scientific community but that doesn't make me a scientist. I am at best a layman on scientific matters and am necessarily limited in my understanding. I don't have the answers to every question in the universe, but I do understand one thing about human knowledge: the fewer assumptions we hold as default the less likely we are to mislead ourselves about what we know. Consequently, if you demand to know what started the universe or how life arose from nonliving matter the only answer I can give is "I don't know." "God did it" is not the automatic default just because that's the traditional answer from religion, it still must be validated as true before it can be accepted. It will be held to the same standards of evidence as any other claim, and if it can't meet that standard I will not accept excuses for why that standard should not apply.

Atheism does not mean I'm a philosopher. In truth I'm less impressed by philosophy than I probably should be, but I've seen some really bad rationalizations trying to justify belief without looking like they're justifying belief. The near-universal admiration of Thomas Aquinas' Five Ways springs immediately to mind. The thing is that religion isn't philosophy, and belief in gods isn't founded in rational thought. It's not taught through rational discourse but an emotional one. People don't wait for their children to learn critical thinking skills before they drill religious beliefs into their heads, and for a very good reason. They're teaching their children to accept religious teachings as a default assumption before they can examine the validity of those assumptions, and most children live their lives without ever considering why they should question them. You can't tell me this isn't deliberate. So I don't need to be a philosopher to be an atheist and I don't pretend to be one.

Atheism doesn't mean I'm automatically a better person. Atheism isn't a magic spell that makes me smarter, stronger, faster, more moral or ethical than someone who believes in a god. Atheism challenges me to reconsider questions that I used to consider sufficiently answered by religion such as science, morality and ethics but that doesn't guarantee I'm going to do a good job with it. I am still the same person I was when I was standing behind the podium leading the church congregation in singing religious hymns, I just no longer believe what religions claim about reality and I don't participate in church any longer. Nor have I become a thieving, raping, murdering monster because I no longer fear divine retribution because my morality is not and never was based on fear. My morality has always been based on doing what I understand to be right, not about avoiding punishment.

Atheism doesn't mean I know there are no gods. I suspect there aren't, because religious claims about gods and reality don't stand up to scrutiny. The more excuses you have to make for why reality doesn't work the way you insist it should, the less inclined I am to believe you know what you're talking about. Arguing for a prime mover or appealing to consequences doesn't convince me either. I'm intellectually honest enough to say that I don't have concrete knowledge that there are no gods the way I know there's no money in my wallet, but not being able to prove there are no gods isn't enough for me to believe that there are. Wanting to believe there are gods is no more useful than wanting there to be money in my wallet. It's still a claim that requires validation, not a default assumption.

Atheism doesn't mean I worship the devil. I shouldn't even have to say this, but it's still a popular thing to say. If I don't believe in your god, why would I take your devil seriously?

Atheists can be liberal or conservative, intelligent or ignorant, friendly or hostile, moral or immoral. We can be good people or bad people just like everyone else. When you learn that someone is an atheist, the only thing you can safely assume from this is that they don't believe in any gods. If you want to know why they don't believe, what kind of person they are and what they know (or think they know) you'll have to dig a little deeper and ask them. Nothing else is implied from atheism but that one thing.

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Adam Lee examines the increasing extremism of Christian conservatives trying to hold back the changing tide of culture and inclusion.

> In a perverse way, this is a good sign. It’s a herald of the religious right’s dwindling cultural power.

Update: They're back.

It's only for 48 hours, but the subreddit was set to private last night. A link to this community was added to the subreddit description, but we'll see if people are interested. I hope we can build a thriving support community here to rival the one there.

This discord server is being managed by one of the current mods in the original exchristian subreddit and is not officially affiliated with reddit. It serves as a fine place for exchristians to gather and talk in real time.

Brilliant satire. I don't normally go to tik tok or recommend videos from there, but this one is brilliant.

Finally! The founder and host of the 700 Club who scammed my family out of thousands of dollars and grifted hours way through life did far more damage to our society than your average televangelist. I don't normally celebrate anyone's death, but the world is a better place without him.

Hopefully a little humor now and then is welcome.

Andra Watkins is an author who shares her experience growing up in the toxic religious purity culture of South Carolina and how it impacted her life. It's a powerful read.

Our gracious host @JonahAragorn asks that we sign up on a server on join-lemmy.org or sign up on kbin.social instead of directing everybody to use the lemmy.one server specifically, in order to distribute the load.

Thank you!

We're experimenting with different alternatives to reddit in anticipation of their impending apocalypse in which they force third party app developers to shut down the products some of us have been using for decades.

No one knows better than an ex-Christian how scary change can be, but it's also an opportunity for growth. Let's see what we can do together.