Incels furious at TV show for accurately depicting incel culture
Incels furious at TV show for accurately depicting incel culture
The online incel community has taken a break from blaming women for their ongoing failures in life to issue a collective tantrum over Netflix’s new drama Adolescence, which dares—dares, mind you—to portray incel culture as the toxic, rage-filled echo chamber it so demonstrably is.
I identify as an incel. I don't visit the incel web spaces though and I don't blame women for it.
I'm an incel because I can't afford to date. Like every week I'm barely able to get by living in poverty. Dating takes time and at least some money. If I got a little more of either, I'd have to use it to better my situation before dating.
I bring this point up because, as toxic as incel culture is, I rarely see it tied back to the shitty economy. Just people pointing fingers at each other as though the Male Loneliness phenomenon were entirely the result of people's personalities.
And yet, I have seen places of abject poverty where people sing to eachother and sing together, they have joys and romance. Dirt poor people are making sweet love together and having kids and I don't know how but they just keep on going.
So the economy is part of it, yes, but poverty isn't a barrier to gettin some lovin, because it doesn't cost anything to get a woman's attention.
There must be more to the story, there is something else going on with our culture and our society that makes it seem impossible.
I agree, I think there's more to the story.
As for the example, I agree that there are impoverished places where people get along fine in their socio-economic status, meaning wealth is not a necessary factor.
I think the key difference with what's going on now in the western world is that young males are disproportionately being pushed to the bottom of the socio economic ladder with the cultural expectation that they have the same resource capacity as their older counter parts.
Another commenter noted the loss of third spaces and I'd add communities in general. People used to date within their communities more, I assume.
So I think it's more to the story like you said. Probably some perfect storm, of which, the general loneliness in the world is but one expression of.
The places you talk about still have a public social life, 3rd spaces, etc. In advanced capitalist countries, there is no public space without some sort of consumption.
Yes that's definitely an issue.
Still, it seems clear to me that for many, (like the kid in the story whose mind was poisoned even before his first attempt) the biggest barrier to achieving relationship bliss with someone special is the belief that it's simply not possible, and all the attendant self reinforcing red pill misogynistic bullshit beliefs one finds online.
One mustn't forget Jlo's informative musical statement: "even if you were broke, my love don't cost a thing".
I'm inclined to think that these kinds of thought distortions are a product of the hyper commercialization and hyper commodification of our lives. People don't meet other people unmediated by consumption or a screen, so the ideas of what it means to connect are distorted.
Careful, Archarnian. That sounds like anti-capitalist talk.
I would stop identifying yourself as an incel. It's more than just being involuntarily celibate and you seem far too well-adjusted.
Well, unfortunately for you, the meanings of words can (and often do) shift. "Incel" may technically expand to "involuntarily celibate," but the term now has many more connotations than just that, and trust me they are all very bad.
At the very least, you should really inform yourself about what you're calling yourself if you're going to continue using the word.
Every relationship is different, so I can't speak to your situation and this may not be the root cause. This isn't specifically for Darkmoon, but for anyone feeling the same way.
I'm male and my wife has a robust social network where I am included in some of their conversations. Most of her female friends are low-key angry at their husbands and resent how much work they (wives) do that goes unnoticed.
Make sure you are helping out in the home: obvious things like cleaning, cooking, dishes, laundry; but also kiddo maintenance like knowing what homework is needed, what they need to wear on Tuesday for spirit day, when the next dentist appointment is (or making it), etc; social maintenance like planning trips to grandparents, finding a babysitter for date night (and planning it), preparing for parties.
Take some of that work off her and she'll have more energy for you.
Tbh at this point calling yourself an incel because you're involuntary celibate is like calling yourself a homophobe because you're scared of gay people. Technically accurate, but do you really wanna go there?
Lmao I had a hard time picturing an actual homophobe but that's funny.
For the example to work, they'd have to be gay allies at the same time, and trying to imagine that is even funnier.
I'm not sure I'd call that involuntarily celibate, rather involuntarily unsocial, as in you don't have the time or money to hang out with people.
I'm a brokecel lmao.
That has to exist already. So after writing that last sentence I searched and it is indeed a part of the incel subculture. That was rough to look at though.
You are looking at the etymology of the term "incel" and then assuming that's the actual meaning. But it isn't. Incel culture is not about people who are too poor to date. If it were, they'd be complaining about minimum wage in the next paragraph, right? But that is not what we see.
I see incel culture tied to sexism, selfishness, and often an willingness to try hard. Do we see it waxing and waning together with the economy? I don't think we do, so I don't think it's closely connected.
Yep and a big part of it is blame shifting onto women. The running theme I find in incel subs is that they don't actually do anything about their issues, other than maybe some appearance based work sometimes. They just wallow in blame shifting and self pity
This is the key element of incel culture - if one member of the group tries to improve themselves in anyway, it's an attack on the whole group and they are ostracized from what feels like their only social group.
"What? You started exercising and showering? Who do you think you are? Who are you trying to kid? You're just playing the slut's game, man"
All social bubbles are at least a little harmful - but incel culture is more than that, it's purposefully self-destructive. You have to be sad, miserable, and let your life fall apart to belong. It takes advantage of social instincts in the worst possible way.
Well duh, why should they do anything? The women should be coming to them!
We need a tinder for poor people, those who don't have the economic means to date, but would have their situation bettered by joining forces with one or more like-minded and equally fin-locked partners.
We could call it Prolescroll, PlentyOfRamen, Stumble, econHarmony
ok, I love this idea lol. "PlentyOfRamen"
Really nice idea in principle but will certainly be exploited by richer ppl
All the richers would troll for poor women.
Not sure why you are getting downvoted that would absolutely be something that happens on an app that advertises as being for poor people. Rich men would join and try and get women too hook up with them for a meal or similar.
Fumble
Edit: op already did stumble and I didn't see it.thought Fumble was to similar, and tried to delete but I also forgot you can't really delete your thing so the comment stays lol
Crumble - for people looking for a squad of survivors to roll with for when society collapses
Or... People looking for a nice pudding.
I bring this point up because, as toxic as incel culture is, I rarely see it tied back to the shitty economy. Just people pointing fingers at each other as though the Male Loneliness phenomenon were entirely the result of people’s personalities.
Because it is. Women aren't magically getting rich while all the men go bankrupt. Thinking you are lonely because you are poor is a cope fantasy that is 100% due to some kind of personality flaw you are harbouring.
Because it is. Women aren’t magically getting rich while all the men go bankrupt.
Wouldn't be required, so long as the social expectation is that straight dating generally requires men to spend on women over the reverse. All it requires is that the dude not have the money to spare, regardless of how women are doing. Couple that with the tendency for women to tend to strongly preference men who are wealthier or higher status than themselves, and just barely scraping by means you have a generally smaller dating pool available as a straight guy. That still generally expects you to be spending on them, rather than the reverse.
so long as the social expectation is that straight dating generally requires men to spend on women over the reverse.
It's not. In the western world this is a myth based on extremely outdated gender and family stereotypes. Some women prefer to have men pay, some prefer to pay themselves, some don't really care. It's not a hard rule you can use as an excuse to give up.
All it requires is that the dude not have the money to spare, regardless of how women are doing.
Even if you actually have to spend money on the date, which is not guaranteed, how much do you think you need to be spending? Why do you think dating needs to be expensive? Again, you are living by these weird rules you've invented that make dating seem far more difficult than it is in reality.
Couple that with the tendency for women to tend to strongly preference men who are wealthier or higher status than themselves
This is just straight up incel cope. You cannot put all women in a box like that and then wonder why you are struggling to meet anyone. Again, it is a fantasy you have invented so that you don't have to try. Try not making massive assumptions about people you literally know nothing about and you might actually have some success.
Ok, but when I was both unemployed and absolutely broke af I picked wildflowers off the railroad tracks and brought them to the woman I was into. I said, "Here's some pretty flowers for a pretty girl". I had no car. I had a shitty $50 hohner plywood guitar with a broken bridge that I played and sang "you are so beautiful".
Its 12 years later and that woman still makes me the best goddamn sandwiches I have ever ate in my life.
Are people watching TV shows and old movies thinking this is real-life, and the only way to get a girl is to take her out in an expensive car for a fancy dinner because this is what "everyone" does? That's not reality.
If we can think of racism as believing ridiculous and false stereotypes about people, this incel business seems like a similar kind of thing. Believing all this 80/20 red pill Chad/Stacey nonsense is no different from thinking Jews have infiltrated all banking and media to keep you poor and ignorant. Believing wealthy high-status men have a bigger dating pool because women prefer them is just like thinking black people can't swim or Mexicans are lazy.
Are people watching TV shows and old movies thinking this is real-life, and the only way to get a girl is to take her out in an expensive car for a fancy dinner because this is what “everyone” does? That’s not reality.
Judging by some of the responses in this thread, yes it seems like younger generations of men have completely warped ideas and expectations when it comes to dating and relationships. Which I guess just further proves that this has absolutely nothing to do with "boo hoo I'm poor" and a lot more to do with having a fucked up personality. Like you, I am in a 12 year relationship and almost all of my "dates" (and I use that word in quotations because I think people have a weird misconception that a date needs to be something expensive and unique) with my partner were just walks along the beach where we talked a lot. We also went to a movie one time and ate some cheap takeaway (we both paid). That's literally it.
It isn't just your stereotypical incel who is lonely. People aren't lonely because they suddenly just got worse at being people.
I see a lot of good, decent guys lonely who don't hate women, it's just that infrastructure and third places got defunded, so you're either at home alone or at work getting told it's only appropriate to socialise in company-approved ways.
Add in that rape somehow got politicised (mostly because we have rapists and pedophiles holding public office), so while we do fuck all for most of the victims who get raped in domestic situations, we get women and men afraid of talking to each other and also afraid of being talked to.
And people who come out and say 'hey I feel lonely' get told 'it's your fault'.
Yes I think the disappearance of third places has a lot to do with it.
Is this genuinely not a thought out response.
On average women are more educated and end up with the dual income that a relationship provides. They are more likely to not die alone.
On average women date and marry hypergomous men. Another Stat that might interest you is that the more successful a women is the odds of them ending up alone go up.
So ya.
I dont think that counts my dude. You just broke. You could probably go get laid if you really wanted to. These guys online are different.
Hell yeah, the horny dudes online don't care how broke you are. They want dick pics and good times.
There came to be an alternate term of 'volcel' for that, at least to the extent that you recognize that your situation isn't conducive to a relationship even if the causes are not really voluntary. It never really caught on in popular use though.
It's a lot of things. It's a measure of vulnerability, and of the social expectations and needs of men or women. It's not exclusive to men, though I think the culture that surrounds it is certainly more outwardly destructive.
At its core, it's a feeling of inadequacy, and that inadequacy is a vulnerability exploited by others who either feel similarly as a way to elevate themselves or just because they're cruel enough to use it to benefit themselves. It can begin with poverty, with bad experiences, with neglect or abuse. It can begin in ignorance, or by being mislead. I think it's also a lack of self awareness, a lack of self care, and often a lack of time or energy for either.
In the end, there's not enough of the world that says it's okay to fail and it's okay to be vulnerable and that you can spend that time on yourself. People will always feel cheated, and there will always be experiences that leave you feeling alienated or hurt. What pains me is that too often it's easier to find anger and resentment in those moments than it is to find the support you need to build yourself back up and feel okay again.
Yes it's very much about the economy which is why we should have elected the party that isn't going to give more of your money to the rich, and isn't blaming problems on immigrants and minorities to draw attention away from the rich having all your money.
However, and I'm not saying you're in this category, men have free will and if any of them take the bait and start aiming their frustration and hate at women, they're still responsible for that.
steal from shitty conservative businesses and families. stop being a victim. take what you want.