Dwarf Fortress creator blasts execs behind brutal industry layoffs: 'I think they're horrible… greedy, greedy people'
Dwarf Fortress creator blasts execs behind brutal industry layoffs: 'I think they're horrible… greedy, greedy people'
Tarn Adams doesn't mince words when it comes to the dire state of the games industry.
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Aren’t video game workers “gig” contracts? You don’t hear about actors getting mad when the job is done and there’s nothing more to act on, they gotta go and find their next gig.
Not every game dev needs artists at all times, programmers at all timea, coders at all times etc. of your not making a new game, yeah you gotta lay of graphic designers, what are they gonna do?
Actors have unions. Actors also get royalties or a percent of sales.
Afaik video game workers have neither unions nor do they get a % of the profits.
Not all actors are in a union, and no they don’t get royalties or a percent of sales, that depends on the contract.
Not all actors are in a union
Are you speaking on the planet, or just in America?
Last I heard, for America, they have to be in the union, once they have been discovered, and want to work for major studios. Otherwise, they can't do the work.
Any US actor who wants to work in a union shop (ie, any major studio) has to be in SAG-AFTRA. Royalties on re-airings are standard for union members, in addition to the payment they got to begin with for their work.
They are not.
They're not. It's not uncommon after a game is developed for there to be a degree of churn in the development studio, but 1) that's not ideal, 2) that's not what's been happening recently.
They typically don't refer to the typical post game churn as "layoffs", and they also typically happen after a game launches, not inline with the entire industry laying off a bunch of people.
That's just.....that's just not how this stuff works m8. By and large no, "video game workers" are not gig/contract most of the time. It does happen, especially at lower levels; but it's foolish to believe anywhere close to the majority of layoffs come from contracts. Those often have built in buy-outs anyways - this is talking about the full time artists/staff/programers who are always working on something
You don't honestly think Infinity Ward laid people off after not getting the contract for Call of Duty: Black Ops (2010) following Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (2009) do you? Or consider the time between Naughty Dog's Crash Team Racing (1999) and Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy (2001) - That's two years. Two years without releasing a game, yet they didn't lay anyone off?
Buddy, there is always a next project. Project Managers will fill every single artist's calendar of deliverables for supporting the current game (someone has to make DLC, though it is sometimes outsourced) and any future projects. They also do buy assets and employ contract work in these domains, but again, it's small in the grand scheme of things.
Programmers will always be optimizing the engine, working on patches for an updated build, or again working on the next game because every business worth it's salt isn't going to fire experienced staff in preparation for the next project as demanded by the need for more returns
Unless other economic factors change - a company may choose to engage short term solutions to keep profits looking healthy. If it's cheaper to lay people off then it is to compete on merit (make a new game) why would you from a business perspective?
These companies are run by bean counters; not artists and devs anymore. Almost every game company was started by people who wanted to make good games, and now these same companies are laying people off regardless of their position in the market.
Idk. Games come out way too frequently to support the idea that these people are getting laid off in between projects. It doesn't add up. These layoffs are very recent in the grand scheme of the game industry.
this is talking about the full time artists/staff/programers who are always working on something
This is talking about every worker isn’t it?
Buddy, there is always a next project.
No there isn’t.
Programmers will always be optimizing the engine, working on patches for an updated build
And when they aren’t needed since the next project is in story board and design mode… and the previous project has been shelved….? There’s not always work available 100% of the time, that’s just silly. Also, some outsource engines and don’t need programmers, so not at all actually.
How long do you think making a modern AAA game takes? If those big game companies only started working on a new game after shelving the previous one, they'd go bankrupt before it's finished. That's why they pretty much always have several projects in the works at any given time.
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Not a good idea to put all your eggs into one basket when running a business, mate. You always run multiple projects, and it doesn't have to be games, to continue the cashflow.
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Pre-production happens while the previous project is in active development so they can't shift everyone over to the new project as soon as they can. They aren't sitting on their hands to start that process until the previous one finishes.
What about studios that just make 1 or 2 games over 10 years? You’re ignoring the studios that put out the largest amount of games and talk about them like they are everyone else. Theres thousands of these studios compared to the dozens you are talking about like they are gospel.
I’m sorry the industry is far larger with more intricacies than you thought. Even these small studios go through the same layoffs during downturns, it’s just not a big deal since it’s only a handful of employees. Even though that may be 20% of their work force, so that’s actually worse………
Pre-production still keeps a project ready to go when the previous one finishes. Trust me, I have a lot more knowledge on the industry than you do. I have several friends in the industry and have considered entering it myself. Studios don't just lay employees off between projects. That'd be horribly wasteful. Any half decent producer will always have tasks for people to work on.
Trust me, I have a lot more knowledge on the industry than you do. I have several friends in the industry and have considered entering it myself.
Oddly, I can also claim the same thing, that’s why I know that people get laid off between jobs, since it actually happens. Or course I could be making this up, just like you are.
I am not making it up. What you're talking about used to happen a lot more, but even then it wasn't that common. The small studios will often work on contract work if they didn't have a projects of their own, and large studios have multiple projects going at the same time. One of my friends just recently they canceled their project but luckily didn't lay them off and just switched them to a different ongoing project. Indie studios generally they wear many hats and everyone does pre-production, design, and other tasks.
It's too time consuming and expensive to train up all new staff every project. Maybe a handful get laid off, but it isn't gig work. It's unusual for that to happen.
The studios who are laying people off are the studios with hundreds or thousands of employees with multiple projects active at any given time. No, it's not gig work. Even small studios working on one project generally don't do this. When one project is done, the next one is through pre-production and ready for development to begin usually, or they'll have a break. Usually keeping employees happy and loyal will be more effective than training new employees every time a project starts. It's stupidly inefficient to do that.
Plus, that shouldn't be acceptable almost anywhere. People should be able to have stable lives with reliable incomes and locations. Expecting anything else is horrible for the workers lives.
No? They're employees.
The difference is, actors do it out of choice, and through power. If the gig workers are doing it through no choice and because employers don't want to give them the same benefits as permanent employees, it's exploitative.