EU moving towards total monetary surveillance and banning all anonymous payments
EU moving towards total monetary surveillance and banning all anonymous payments
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This thread is a dumpster fire. Can someone explain to me why i should be concerned about the tracking of payments that as an average person will not happen outside of buying huge stuff like a car? While no one is forced to answer me i would like you to refrain from vague statements like "this is attacking your privacy", because i am interested in how. If you think its obvious feel free to ignore.
I think the biggest point that i could see being a problem is the crypto stuff because i once made a anonymous donation via monero (that because i was concerned but the target needed privacy). It was about 30€ or something. Would that be illegal under the new guidelines? And if so, why would i care, since it is supposed to be anonymous.
Anonymity is important for various reasons. You can't predict everything bad a government will try to do to stifle freedom that a person may want to avoid. Off the top of my head, I could see someone trying to pay for an abortion or something like that in a southern state where it's illegal, for health reasons to save their own life.
I think this is actually a very good example, thank you.
People from europe sometimes come a long as assholes ("wE aRe NoT iN tHe ShItTy UsA") while ignoring that political stability is not guaranteed. Neither is democracy. Sitting here germany i look very nervously at the many countries shifting to the right and getting more authoritarian.
I pray to all gods that the times we live in wont be very interesting for historians to come...
I think that's a big reason I'm so pro-privacy. I'm sure if the US weren't a couple steps ahead of you guys towards fascism, I'd prioritize other things, too. Hopefully you all can stop the march towards the right of your government before it gets worse.
This is Europe not that dumpster fire of a country.
The same Europe that is home to Orban and Vucic and Erdogan? Yeah, good thing you never elect right-wing ideologues with a penchant for authoritarianism.
To me the problem is that you wouldn't be able to buy a car anonymously anymore, while it leaves the really rich pretty much untouched.
Art is a well known angle for money laundering or giving someone a huge sum of money pretty much without any regulation. Contracts for construction or even consulting are another way.
I don't have access to this kind of playground - chances are, you neither. But the people supposedly targeted by this kind of law (corrupt politicians, organised crime, ...), do have access to these things and are therefore not impacted.
You have to register a car anyway. Where exactly is the problem?
nothing to hide nothing to fear, huh?
And i thought at least after Snowden we learnt this is bs...
So you want people to be able to drive several tons of literal murder machines without any form of registration?
don't try to misunderstand ppl on purpose
Then what else could you possibly mean?
What a sophilistic reply. No, car insurance is a thing. The purchase will no longer be anonymous, after you purchase car insurance for the car you just bought.
"You know, for all those totally, 100% legitimate and completely anonymous car purchases people make, that definitely won't be used by organised crime: honest."
I use Monero for donations too on a regular basis. From what I understand, the people accepting donations would no longer be allowed to sell them to professional platforms (silly as those are the ones KYCing).
I think they would be. If they're operating as a business, the requirement is that their wallet(s) is at a custodian, so all transactions can be audited. You could still donate to that charity, and that charity would still be able to sell them or use them to buy stuff from another entity, but there would be a paper trail for the charity and the businesses they interact with. It doesn't impact the person donating, only the receiver.
That would make sense. Thx
Let's say you have political beliefs and would like to donate to such causes, March against genocide, stand with local essential workers, union fee. Some places like Hungary might be very dangerous if everyone knows what you spend money on.
"It's not about me so I don't care"
Principles
You don't need it right up until you need it.
Depending how inflation goes €3k limit will soon be in the territory of regular smartphone price or any slightly more expensive household purchase. AFAIK €1k 3 decades ago would be about €3k now.
That is assuming no one tries to push the limits lower, which is almost guaranteed to happen.
Well I'm not in the EU, but in my situation I live in a shithole in the US called Tennessee. I have cancer that can be removed, but I don't have the quarter of a million for the surgery. It's been impossible to get a surgeon to even look at me, 2 years looking and still no surgeons will even let me in their office.
I need medications but the med I need the most is $8000 a month, it suppresses my autoimmune system and alows me to heal. My cancer is vary rare, it's called a neuroendocrine tumor, it's caused by extreme stress, this is because I'm a natural born empath, but saying that out loud usually gets a knife in my back from anyone near me carrying dark energy.
But to get to the point, I can get some meds occasionally for cheap, as long as they're sold for cash, but if that gos away then I definitely will die much faster. Seems on par for the life I've lived, care about everyone, then have everyone try to kill me.
Yeah i have heard about crypto being used to get cheaper medication, but i had forgotten, so thanks for taking your time and sharing this example.
I wish you the best health possible, better and cheaper medications and people that make your life better
Thanks, I'm vary used to it by now, but still appreciated.
So, because the US can't get its shit together and you can't get medical help for neither cancer nor psychological issues, the EU - with pretty good universal healthcare - should allow cash payments without limit?
Hey bud I'm glad narcissism, is working out for you. I really hope you're old so it don't catch up.
For a supposed empath you act remarkably similar to an ahole.
You're describing a problem that literally does not exist in the EU to justify that a law in the EU is wrong. That's not very smart.
I wouldn't argue for tougher gun laws in Germany because you guys keep getting your children shot either.
That's actually one of my karmic debts I must pay off (arrogance,) but I already paid off 8 karmic debts, only four more to go if I live to 98 like most in my family.
I was probably a very bad person in my last life. That's why this is my road this time, I except my cancer, and if it takes me then so be it. I also apologize for thinking of everyone as one and everyones actions actually effecting everyone else regardless of country, I forget so many people are still so programmed with tribalism.
Also, if it helps you to understand, I grew up in an extremely conservative stronghold with rich assholes everywhere so I became a dark empath, found my way back mostly, but the dark still pounces out on someone now and then (I'm working on it.) Life's a journey and some don't want to even try to figure it out, but when you really really want to it starts to show you what you need to get where you need to be.
Life has actually been better then ever since the cancer, I still have a projected seven years left, so I'm working on turning the money machine back on and making the money to save myself in this shitty country I live in, but I never expect anyone to understand what it's like to feel others emotions your whole life in a family and community that refuse to except this stuff exists.
Ok, so you're completely bonkers.
that’s exactly what i’d expect a dark empath to say. sheathe your knife unless you want to get saddled with karmic debt bro. you’re limited to paying off karmic debt in transactions of no more than 3k eurohms each, and with this dark energy you’d be in karmic debt into the millions.
Don't worry, I can feel that the Force is strong with them. They have many midi-chlorians, so a karmic debt in the millions should be no problem.
Don't worry, I only wrote this because someone here needed to hear these words.
- tacking of payments gives those in power (banks, [bad] governments,...) Mechanism to completely profile and manipulate you. Your spendings says EVERYTHING about you. You might not care because you're living in peaceful and stable (e.g. not in economic crisis like Venezuela) times, but the world and many governments are visibly changing for the worst. It gives them unlimited power to introduce any kind of taxes and fines or means of blocking you from moving away with your money to somewhere else. You don't agree? They can still get to your money.
- limiting cash or anynomous payments takes away your financial freedom and strongly increases your dependency on banks. Banks put limits on your money that you can't fully control, they block your transactions for whatever they find suspicous. They can charge you whatever they want. There's a lot of corruption and money laundering with banks, that are the the most regulated institutions in the world ( except for armies probably), proving that even with a lot of control and legislation, those in power can still do whatever the fuck they want. Banks also take risks with your money and there have been crisises caused by them before. Most of them invest in oil, war and other ventures that are profitable for them. They manipulate markets for profit and for the worse of the common man. There's a lot you can read about those things. Becoming so strongly dependant on banks give governments limitless power on what to do with your money and block it whenever they want. Truckers protested against government in Canada => bank accounts blocked.
Whether or not some or all of these examples matter to you, one thing you have to understand and always defend is: you are the boss of your of money. Your ownership and control over your money is evenly linked to how much freedom you have.
Another thing you also have to understand, even if you think full visibility and control for governments is a good thing to solve crime, corruption and/or money laundering: there are and have ALWAYS been black markets. And the worse countries are off, the stronger these markets become.
There isn't really. Most people are unaware that most crash transactions and withdrawals anywhere close to those amounts will almost always have to be reported to the government of whatever country you're in. But, you know, EU bad....
There's no wholesome reason to need 10k in cash. Even the examples here of paying for an abortion is a problem with reproductive freedom and not cash. You're not suddenly going to get away with it because you "sneakily" withdrew 10s of 000s in cash, right before you travelled to a state where abortion was legal. Political donations can be made in small, repeated sums. Specifically, as they dont sell large value items.
Unless you're a hired assassin, a paedophile network, a corrupt politican or a drug cartel it's not going to effect your business.
In reality, most of the nay sayers are people who take cash payments for the work they do to avoid paying the taxes the rest of us have to pay, for the things we all use.