"It's a race to the bottom — literally the bottom."

It's a bit of a class thing since you need to either have physical access to a swimmable body of water or have economic access to a pool and then have the free time to either teach your kids yourself or the money and free time to drop them off at swim lessons.

In the US, black Americans are the most likely to not know how to swim and poor Americans in general are more likely to not know how.

I can't see how it's a class thing, like you can live by water without it being beachfront property. Plenty of poor people live by the water all over the world and in the US. I guess I just don't understand, but I thank you for trying to explain
- i live in a dry place, there ain't swimming depth bodies of water that aren't artificial, and you've got to pay to swim at most of them. our rivers are pathetic and an adult would be hard pressed to drown in one so it's also mostly useless to learn unless it's for recreation
  
  That sucks
- Pollution.

is this a serious comment

I never got a grasp of how to breathe for front crawl, because it is tiring and I always needed more air than I could get in between arm strokes. Maybe if I had better technique so I was less out of breath, then I wouldn't need as much air and I'd figure it out, but whatever.

Swimming is pretty hard and tiring if you aren't using proper form and trying to streamline yourself. If you can only swim 10m until you get tired then that's basically the same as not knowing how to swim.

If I lived near a community pool maybe I'd try and learn/practice during lane swim times, but I don't and gyms with pools are too expensive monthly.

I don't float either, but if I kick my legs my head stays above water. That's what I meant by "keep your head above water."

never got a grasp of how to breathe for front crawl.

If you're at the point of struggling to do a specific style, you're past the point of not knowing how to swim at all.

If you can only swim 10m until you get tired then that's basically the same as not knowing how to swim.

I guess, but I imagined when people say "I cannot swim" that they meant that they could not swim. That's at least what I am asking about, hence why I specified "not long distance". I can easily understand not being in physical shape to swim long distances, but that's not the same as not at all being able to swim, which is what I am asking about.
- If I can only swim a few metres before stopping, then I drown when I stop, then I can't swim.
  
  If I'm terrible at running, I can just stop and not have my lungs fill up with water.
  
  That's a pretty big difference. If you get chucked into the middle of an Olympic pool and aren't 100% sure you could get out, then I'd say you can't swim.
  
  Usually when you talk about being able to swim it's about safety in aquatic activities. My grandpa almost died swimming in a small river without much current because he wasn't that good at swimming. He didn't die, but because it was that close I'd say he didn't know how to swim.
  
  You wouldn't say you can ride a bike if you fall after a few metres.
  
  If I can only swim a few metres before stopping, then I drown when I stop, then I can't swim.
  
  If that is what people mean when they say they cannot swim, then it makes sense.
  
  You wouldn't say you can ride a bike if you fall after a few metres.
  
  I mean I guess I would? If you can pedal and give it momentum and keep your balance for a while, then you can ride a bike.
  
  Different activities have different contexts for what "being able to do it" means.
  
  If I said I can't drive, that means I have no license and probably think there's too high of a chance of something going wrong if I drove. That doesn't mean that idk how to steer, hit the gas, or brake.
  
  If I said I can't walk that means I'm paralyzed.
  
  Swimming is somewhere in between those two on the spectrum of "what does it mean when I say I can't".
  
  I'd say that I am currently a bad/weak swimmer because I had some independent practice recently, but there was definitely a time where I'd say I didn't know how to swim even though I had taken lessons at that point.
  
  Yeah I understand (but thank you for making sure) and I guess I'm just placing it closer to walk than most others. If you told me you couldn't climb trees I'd assume you were paralyzed too and swimming is in the same area in my view.
- Go try to tread water for 5 minutes. It's absolutely exhausting
  
  Yeah I know? How is that in any way an answer to my question of "how can people not know to swim?" If you can tread water you can swim.
  
  I'm not saying it's not difficult? I'm not asking "lmao what's up with these pussies being too weak to swim for more than a few seconds?" I took pains to make it clear that's not what I meant.
  
  Permanently Deleted
  
  I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
  
  yewtu.be
  
  inv.nadeko.net
  
  yt.artemislena.eu
  
  piped.video

If you lack exposure to the water. It doesn't come perfectly naturally, especially if you are a bit older and have developed a fear. It's definitely easier to learn if you're younger.

But that's kinda what I mean, I don't get the "learning" part. Swimming is like... Climbing a tree or digging or doing some other somewhat complicated but approachable task. You're not gonna be great at it, but isn't there an intuitive approach you have?
I've never ran Track & Field or polevaulted, but I'm sure I could kinda do the simplest of simple of those. Not great or competitively, but I would be able to do it. I feel like it would be that with swimming too - Youre not gonna be great, but you're going to figure out a way to move yourself forward pretty intuitively
- I learned to swim before I have memory but imagine it’s due to panicking or not knowing how to float efficiently meaning you tire out fast and take big gulps of water.
  
  Probably not dressed for swimming either. Shoes and draggy clothing definitely don't help!
  
  That makes sense

Why would anyone drown if swimming was that easy? It's like riding a bike: trivial and instinctive for those who know, but dangerous and complicated for those who don't.

Because its physically demanding. Im sorry but swimming is easy. And again, i feel like I have to reiterate: when I say swimming I mean "keeping your head above water and moving in a direction of your choice". Dogs know how to do it! Not talking long distance or fast or for a long period, I'm just talking "not immediately sinking when you hit water".

Others have taken the time to explain that that's not what they mean when they say they cannot swim. I assumed "I cannot swim" meant "I cannot swim" and not "I cannot swim very well". I guess its just one of those quirks of language.

Most people don't drown in water by the way, they freeze to death.
- That's like saying "whistling is easy, just put your lips together and blow." Though it is easy, that's only if you already know how to move your body in the right ways. Some people can intuit the motions without guidance but I'm telling you that it's far from everyone.
  
  Also unlike whistling or biking, if you mess up swimming you die. Even in a shallow pool.
  
  No it is not at all like that. It is like saying "climbing is easy, just go up" or "jumping is easy, just go up". If you saw someone jump once, you'd probably be able to kinda do it. If you wanted to climb a tree, but you'd never climbed before, you'd probably figure out a way. There is not one specific way to do it, there is not innate knowledge of how to breathe or move that you need to obtain, it is not determined by the shape of your internal breathing apparatus.
  I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. I'm not talking moving fast or for a long distance. I'm talking about giving yourself forward momentum while keeping your head over water. Children do it instinctively!
  
  You can swim in shallow water, "not swimming" doesn't equal sudden death.
  
  I don't know why you keep insisting that children know how to swim instinctively. No they don't. In the US, drowning is the leading cause of death for kids age 1-4 and the #2 leading cause for kids age 5-14 (#1 is car crashes). I don't know what else to say so I'll just leave it at that.
  
  "keep insisting"? It's the first time I've written it.
  And again I AM NOT SAYING SWIMMING FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME.
  But instead of linking to stats of drowning, which does not answer my question, but instead leads out onto another tangent of discussing how many of those drownings were from people who swam, got tired and drowned, hiw many were from peoples body experiencing cold shock and thus drowning and how many were from immediately sinking which is what you are implying, you could have linked me to this https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130814100212.htm or something akin to it, which DOES approach an answer to my question. What I was hoping for was people being able to explain their own experiences to add to this kind of thing, so I could get a less academic understanding, but I guess instead we have to discuss semantics and "how long do you have to swim for it to count" instead.
  
  I'm happy I learned my assumption of instinctuality was wrong, but I still don't get how adults cannot swim, which is what I've been trying to understand. I've seen plenty of children work it out on their own, I worked it out on my own. Just like we work out how to climb on our own. Which is why I explained the whole climbing thing. Instead we're in a discussion of "no it's actually more like whistling no it's actually more like eating ass not it's" what the fuck?
  
  Oh fair, that is the first time you mentioned kids specifically. You've said/implied that it was simple and natural in every comment though so it was that attitude that I wanted to address.
  
  If you want anecdotal evidence then here's this: I cannot swim and neither can anyone in my family. I don't mean we can't swim long distances or that we can't swim skillfully, I mean that we cannot swim or float whatsoever. I nearly died one time when we visited the community pools because I didn't expect the slide to plunge me downwards into the water. I got out by aimlessly flailing forward and getting lucky. And no that wasn't really swimming, it was more like walking on the floor while holding my breath as best I could. Also the lifeguard didn't notice.
  
  At the pools, we always stay in the shallow areas that's waist deep. And the few times we've gone to the beach, we don't go further into the water than to get our feet wet. There are no other opportunities for us to swim here and even those 2 cost money. I hope you understand why it's unlikely for people in our situation to learn how to swim. Like, why take time out of my schedule to pay for something that I can't do, that my friends and family can't do, and that can potentially kill me?
  
  For the record I brought up whistling because it's a skill that many people don't have. I've been able to whistle since I could speak and so could my parents, but it would be stupid for me to conclude that whistling is an innate human skill that all people know how to do. Likewise, some people just can't figure out swimming by themselves. The proper movement of their bodies does not come naturally and that's that.
  
  I'm not gonna read all that. I got to "if you want anecdotal evidence" and I knew you for some reason still don't get it.
  I'm not asking for evidence. I'm not trying to debate wether or not people can't swim. I get that they cant, I understand that. I feel like I've said that in so many ways now. I'm not trying to trash on it either. I feel like I keep repeating myself. I'm just asking "hey what's up with people not being able to swim?" Not as a joke or derision or anything, just as an honest question because I can't relate and I'd like to. I'd like to understand how a person who can walk and talk and read and write and think and do normal physical stuff, cannot keep their head above water and give themselves forward momentum.
  
  I understand that they exist, I'm not some sort of swimming truther. I really do not understand how this is such a hard question to grasp, I feel like I've made myself incredibly clear. I'm not asking "why do people get tired from swimming?" I'm not asking "why can't people do crawl for 600 meters?" I'm asking about the very basic act of swimming and when I asked initially I thought it was implicit it was about adults. I don't know why I brought children or dogs into it, I guess I just got frustrated because it seems like you keep making this into a discussion of something I'm not trying or wanting to discuss. I'm not trying to debate anything, I'm not in doubt about how physical activity can be tiring, I'm not asking about why people don't know how to swim Butterfly style, I'm not asking for evidence in some strange debate. I don't get how I could have made myself any clearer.

I can only guess that people panic

I didn't really get a proper grasp on anything but the backstroke until I took adult swimming classes in my 20s.

It doesn't help that not knowing how to swim doesn't stop gym class from forcing you to participate. I drank a lot of chlorine during 2 weeks each year.

And it's wild, I was an avid distance runner, biker, and tree/rock climber. Swimming just didn't click for me for some reason.

Weird! Backstroke was the first thing I figured out too - and that's sort of what I mean. Kinda just worked something out.

And yeah I remember the mouthfuls of chlorine :yea:

Thank you for this thread - I have had the same bafflement and the exchanges below were enlightening.

Thank you for this response. I feel like half the people responding haven't read my question all the way through, so it's been quite frustrating.