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Daily Discussion Thread: ♥️💜💙💚💛🩵🩷🩶 Tuesday, 17 December, 2024

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Gosh the internal review process for traffic fines is such a crock of shit.

I'm challenging a red light camera fine as I think it was incorrectly issued - my car crossed the stop line when the light was yellow, then it turned red and the cameras went off. You have to cross the stop line after the light has turned red to commit the offence (at least that's my reading of the law). Wrote a detailed review application with reasons, my recollection of the situation, referring to the photo evidence you can access etc, all I got back is "we are satisfied the offence was committed". That's it. Pay up or go to court.

I'm in this crap position of having only my recollection of the situation to rely on. I can't prove my car was in the intersection when the light was still yellow outside of pointing to the police photo which shows exactly this. But that wasn't good enough for the review, so it's probably not good enough for court either. It's a really expensive fine too. Feels like guilty until proven innocent rather than the other way around.

I've been much more careful since this fine, the light goes yellow I'm stopping. I don't trust those fixed cameras one bit.
- Ooh - I have first-hand experience with this! I had green, but needed to stop because a pedestrian was crossing the intersection illegally somewhere in Hawthorn. I was over the line, but not 100% over the line. When the pedestrian cleared the way, I continued and the camera went off. Your whole car needs to be over the line when the light turns red. The flash goes off the same millisecond, there is zero grace on that.
  
  I challenged, and had to go to court. Explained what happened and the magistrate and he agreed that I was not breaking the law. I can't find the outcome term online now - I'm at work and don't have time to research it. I can explain what happened in layman's terms though:
  When you challenge the offense, you are saying the police made a mistake. That you shouldn't have been issued an infringement. The police will fight you in court over that.
  In my case, I was given a verdict that basically meant "person is guilty but there are extenuating circumstances", and I didn't need to pay the fine etc. It did cost me a day off work, though
  
  If you are saying your front tyres were over the line, so you're not guilty, I don't think that'll fly. Your whole car has to be over the line when it turns red. In my case, they could see I was doing like 5-10km/h when the light turned red, I obviously wasn't zooming through. So while the photo didn't show the pedestrian, they believed me.
  
  This is really helpful, thank you - tells me that I should just pay the fine. The time, stress and anxiety of challenging the police isn't worth it for me. The front tyres were over the line on red but from what I've read, with fixed camera fines, part of the car being over on red means no offence.
- I always thought you should not enter an intersection on an amber light or you are gonna get done once it's red.
  
  I thought so too at first. The road rule is not about being out of the intersection once the light is red, but the vehicle not crossing the stop line once the light turns red. If you’re in the intersection on amber, you can complete the crossing even if the light turns red and no infringement. That’s my research anyway.
  
  There are a fair few intersections in Melbourne where you couldn't ever move if you couldn't be in the intersection as it goes from amber to red and then complete the crossing. Denmark St northbound turning right into High St Kew, for example, is impossible otherwise.
  
  Iirc it specifically says something along the lines of "you must stop at a yellow light unless it is unsafe to do so". If the light goes red when you're 5 metres from the stop line and you're barreling down the road at 60, obviously you aren't going to stop
  
  @Baku @CEOofmyhouse56 You end up in an intersection while it is red more often when going slowly than when going the speed limit. When doing the limit you should see the orange long early enough to brake.
  
  When doing 10 in an 80 zone you may be in the intersection the entire period of the orange.

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