Schizophrenic man, armed with a stick that had a knife on one end, is shot and killed by California police
Schizophrenic man, armed with a stick that had a knife on one end, is shot and killed by California police
Police in Inglewood shot dead a man who they say was wielding a stick with a knife on one end. His family says the man had schizophrenia.
Archived page, if you're paywalled or region-blocked.
He had a knife... on a stick.
I'll need to see the video on this one, officers, but for now, mark me as damned skeptical that this killing was self-defense.
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What is so hard to believe about someone taping a knife to a stick?
He doubts this man had to die. Qualified police should have been able ro subdue him without deadly force.
Would you try and subdue someone like that? Because I wouldn't.
Would you do it if you had a taser, a baton, years of training, and a radio to call for backup?
Do you know they didn't try the tazer?
And no, I'm not taking on someone armed with a knife with a baton, what the hell is wrong with you?
My favorite thing about you making dumbass comments all over the place in this post is you obviously haven't even read the article lmao.
You don't even know if what your saying has anything to do with the situation. You have no idea what even happened.
Yeah, that’s why I was careful when writing my own. The article only gives a vague description of what happened. Even then, most of those descriptions come from people who need their actions to look justified, so they don’t lose their jobs or face charges.
Yeah, that's the truth. We don't know the truth, except that someone's dead. Won't know the truth until the cops share the video, if they do.
He said officers tried to calm Mora down before twice using a Taser on him. They then fired beanbag rounds before ultimately killing him, the man said.
Would you look at that, turns out they did.
Look at that. The wonders of reading.
There are more choices in any given situation than just "do nothing" or "extreme"
Such as?
Deescalate for one.
What makes you think they didn't try?
Because they're cops.
He said officers tried to calm Mora down before twice using a Taser on him. They then fired beanbag rounds before ultimately killing him, the man said.
Interesting.
Are you a cop? Because people who wouldn't shouldn't be.
That's not what I asked you.
But it's the right answer. If it's not your job you don't have to be willing to risk your life to save another. You're asking an irrelevant question and you know it.
What right do you have to expect someone else to do it, if you wouldn't do so yourself?
Every?
No one is forced to be a cop.
I wouldn’t jump into a fire either, but I’d be pissed if someone chose to be a firefighter and refused to fight fire.
What right do you have to expect someone else to do it, if you wouldn't do so yourself?
I wouldn't fly a plane so am I not allowed to travel via air? I wouldn't drive a bus so I can't send my kid off to school on the bus? I wouldn't teach children math so I shouldn't let my kid go to math class? Make your question make sense please. I didn't force anyone to be a cop and as far as I know, no point in the history of the United States of America has an individual been forced to be a police officer. If you choose a dangerous job you have to be willing to face those dangers. You wouldn't trust a surgeon who's afraid of blood to perform open heart surgery, why should I trust a cop who is afraid of a knife to protect me from thieves?
Edit: missed a word
You sound like a cop.
Yeah. Can and have, plenty of times, armed with nothing and fully expected not to damage the people living in the facility.
I can't say I've never gotten bumps or bruises and it isn't a job for everybody, but I'd argue that statement then goes double for someone who's expected to respond to this sort of thing in a less controlled environment.
How many of them had knives?
Several! Knives, improvised clubs, chains, I've seen all kinds of stuff
Wouldn't that be a spear?
With proper materials and construction. Duct taped to a dry stick and it likely would be less lethal than a knife alone, as it'd likely break from swinging force without even hitting something.
I've now better clarified my skepticism.
Was: "... mark me as damned skeptical."
New and improved: "... mark me as damned skeptical that this killing was self-defense."
Would you personally try and subdue someone like that without deadly force? Because I wouldn't.
Here's an idea: Maybe we shouldn't be trying to SUBDUE people who are having mental health crises. Maybe we should try some de-escalation. Maybe we should try to get them to accept sedating meds. Shit, maybe we should hit them with sedating meds from a fucking tranq gun. I can think of several steps along the path long before we arrive at "shucks, guess we had no other option but to murder them" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I am NOT an expert on the topic, so if someone with more knowledge has something to add, please do. Anyway:
Tranquilizers do not work like they do in movies. It’s not uncommon for tranquilizers to require several minutes to take full effect, and a dangerous person can do a lot of damage before losing consciousness. (I’m not trying to suggest that the person in this case qualifies as “dangerous”.)
Also, the tranquilizer dosage needs to be adjusted according to the body mass of the target. There’s no “universal” tranquilizer dart that’s safe to use on both a skinny teen and large adult. Too little tranquilizer, and it will be only partially effective or not effective at all. Too much, and it can be deadly, which negates the point of using a tranquilizer in the first place.
Lastly, there’s the problem of drug interactions. Even if the dosage was correct, one or more tranquilizer ingredients could have an adverse reaction with any medications or other drugs that may be in someone’s system. Actually, even without any drugs playing a role, tranquilizers can still be dangerous. A person’s system can react badly to tranquilizers for any number of reasons. An ambulance and team of paramedics would need to be on site.
I do see your point, and I agree that there should be a much greater emphasis on de-escalation techniques. Unfortunately, tranquilizers aren’t the easy answer that they appear to be.
I'm a nurse. We tranq people in healthcare regularly when they become a danger to others. "Danger to self and others" is not the moment where we worry too much about dosage calculations, allergies, or drug interactions. If you're about to hurt someone, you're getting intramuscular haldol. They will need immediate medical attention, but it's much better than murdering them.
Lol I didn’t realize I was talking to a nurse! You know more about potential medical issues than I do. I appreciate the feedback!
Haha, no worries. I realized it wasn't clear that I wasn't just speculating lol. Like I get that someone with a bladed weapon is a threat, but if they're isolated from immediately harming another person, then trying to talk then down should always be the first option. It IS possible to talk a psychotic person into taking medications voluntarily, if you can calm them down a little. Or talk them into putting down a weapon so you can get them with an IM dose. (I'm kidding about the tranq gun lol, but seriously deploying something like that would be a better option than using an actual gun ffs.)
It's a little amazing to me how many members of the general public are chomping at the bit to dehumanize people with mental illnesses who get agitated. Y'all, I guarantee I've dosed your dementia grandma when she got wigged out and started kicking people and trying to yank out her IV line. Agitation is a temporary psychological state, not a character trait. People don't deserve to be murdered because they got flipped out.
He said officers tried to calm Mora down before twice using a Taser on him. They then fired beanbag rounds before ultimately killing him, the man said.
They did try and talk him down.
Yeah that famous de-escalation technique known as tazing someone. Please do everyone a favor and shut up. You don't know what you're talking about.
What would you prefer them to have done?
Is it possible to do this with a dart though, or does this require an injection?
I'm glad someone else is looking at this rationally.
Shit, maybe we should hit them with sedating meds from a fucking tranq gun.
You guys are off the deep end.
The deep end is murdering people with a mental health crisis.
He said officers tried to calm Mora down before twice using a Taser on him. They then fired beanbag rounds before ultimately killing him, the man said.
Sounds like they exhausted every other option to me.
So just so I'm clear...
Shooting him = Totally justified
Incapacitating him = off the deep end
Must be a fun reality to live in buddy
You're off the deep end for thinking that would work, tranquiliser darts aren't really a thing for people.
Tranquilizers do work on humans though. So do tasers or several other non-lethal options, which is really the point people are making while you're choosing to be pedantic.
It's pretty common for a tazer to not work, for various reasons, and if it doesn't, your chances of getting your firearm out before they get to you are slim to none. Similar story with this hypothetical tranquiliser gun.
Would you take that chance?
Police are trained and supposed to take that non-lethal force chance, yes absolutely. I am personally not a cop, because I don't want to be in those situations. But people that DO sign up to serve and protect the public should be held to a higher standard than the general public, especially considering the tools, training, and resources (money) police forces have at their disposal.
You're not going to convince me the only way to safely end this altercation was by shooting the mentally ill man to death. We have to ask ourselves how we can do better so we can learn from these situations and less people die violent deaths.
To use your your logic: why do tranquilizers even get produced at all then? Why don't we just shoot every unruly animal? Wild and sick animals are just as or more dangerous than a man with a knife on a stick.
🤡