'Top secret' Hamas documents show that terrorists intentionally targeted elementary schools and a youth center | NBC News
'Top secret' Hamas documents show that terrorists intentionally targeted elementary schools and a youth center | NBC News
Maps and documents recovered from the bodies of Hamas attackers reveal a coordinated plan to target children and take hostages inside an Israeli village near Gaza.
Maps and documents recovered from the bodies of Hamas attackers reveal a coordinated plan to target children and take hostages inside an Israeli village near Gaza.
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Did they really though, or is this just propaganda?
I wouldn’t trust anything “found” by Israeli intelligence. Having said that, according to article, these are plans for:
Hamas units to surround and infiltrate villages and target places where civilians, including children, gather.
Which is reasonably close to what happened. Given how direct and quick the strike was, it’s reasonable to assume that plans of that nature exist.
Then again, October 7th was a a Saturday and a holiday and Hamas attacked early in the morning. If they wanted to kidnap kids, it wouldn’t make sense to target schools.
TLDR: I dunno. Maybe.
Other officials in their leadership said they were confused about the timing.
The attack was also the 50th anniversary, to the day, of the Yom Kippur war.
Yeah, it’s not as if they live close to Jewish people, probably no idea what their Sabbath is.
People trusting the IDF in 2023 is something I'll never understand.
Their kneejerk reaction has always been to claim theyre the victim and their actions are 100% justified.
So now, even when it might be true, there's no way I'd ever trust their word on it.
They're like real life "boy that cried wolf".
It's no coincidence the IDF trains US cops.
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More than 700 Palestinian children and more than 400 women have been killed in the last 8 days by Israel, this is far from self defence or proportional.
Edit: Israel has now inflicted over 2000 deaths and injured over 9000 others
I've never I understood the need to see "proportional casualties", just strikes me as a deeply fucked up perspective.
Trying to declare a good guy or bad guy in this conflict and region is only useful for exposing the supporters' biases.
The best moral way forward is to condemn all war crimes and atrocities. If, in doing so, someone says, "But... but..." or "more people died on this side, " then they have an agenda, and they're not looking to condemn the actual violence and crimes.
Israel's collective punishment is objective a war crime by definition. Hamas's attacks are war crimes. Period. War crimes don't get negated by virtue of sympathy.
A state doesn't have this right but when we talk about the right to self defence for individuals proportionality is very important. Most countries would not allow you to claim self defence from a mugging if you decapitated the attacker and sent the head to their family.
Also if you're both siding a genocide you're either misinformed or for some reason siding with fascism.
If you are calling for peace without removing the genocidal state then you are just calling for a continuation of the genocide.
Palestinians have a right to risist occupation under the Geneva convention. You don't get to tell them how they should resist a truely horrific situation.
Israel is breaking international law by occupying and attacking Palestine. But most countries choose to look away and even directly support the genocidal state.
This is like saying both sides are bad between the SS and resistance fighters because resistance fighters also committed war crimes.
If you view WW2, Ukraine-Russia war, or SA apartheid as one sided then you are a hypocrite to not apply the same thinking here.
Palestinians have a right to risist occupation under the Geneva convention. You don’t get to tell them how they should resist a truely horrific situation.
Do the Geneva conventions say anything about raping teenage girls as a method of resistance? What do they say about burning babies as a method of resistance? What effect did you think Hamas was going for when they brought a couple hundred Israeli civilians back and didn't offer or suggest any terms for their release? Would you tie a family together so you could kill them together, if you were in their situation?
See, because here, I thought that nobody anywhere had the right to target and torture civilians, and that there was no conceivable way that would lead to peace or any concessions that might actually help Palestinian people. Here, I thought that terrorists committing terrorism with the intent of provoking war might be a bad thing, I guess I'm just biased into thinking that burning civilians alive is maybe not the greatest idea.
All those claimes are unverified I'll wait a couple of weeks before we get the actual truth from the Israeli state.
All evidence including eye witness accounts from Israeli survivors reported that resistance fighters treated them humanely.
All hostage deaths so far have been caused by Israeli bombing.
500 civilians were just blown up in a hospital yesterday by Israel, do you not think they deserve their human rights? Or do you not consider them civilians?
Do you even consider them to be human?
All those claimes are unverified I’ll wait a couple of weeks before we get the actual truth from the Israeli state.
Let's pick the first one. Perhaps you don't think the Hamas video of Shani Louk being paraded around Gaza with bloody sweatpants counts as "verification," or this video of a passed-out hostage in her underwear but what about the forensic evidence of rape? Is that good enough for you? And of course, you're not going to give any credence to the multiple terrorist interrogations that confirmed they rape their captives, even babies, to "dirty" them so they won't get into heaven, or Netanyahu or Biden's accounts of the evidence they've seen, but certainly multiple eyewitness accounts of the nova festival count for something?
Before you answer: think, have you said, before, that we should believe women? Is denying claims of rape a regular habit of yours when the victims aren't Jewish? Do you need video footage of the rape occurring? Will you not believe it until you personally test a hostage with a rape kit?
By the way, it's hard to find these videos because, while Hamas uploaded plenty of them to social media, they did that as an act of terror, and most news media is not setting out to terrify you. Do you really want to see a baby's corpse burnt up on the ground?
All evidence including eye witness accounts from Israeli survivors reported that resistance fighters treated them humanely.
How dare you?
[what about parading Shani Louk around after hving raped her](the Hamas video of Shani Louk being paraded around Gaza with bloody sweatpants](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelWarVideoReport/comments/174r2ae/israeli_woman_ziptied_and_with_bloody_pants/))? What about the other hostage from above?
how about indoctrinating young children into Islam, is that humane treatment?
Again, this is all from videos Hamas released. We might have more accounts of how hostages were treated once they start releasing hostages or putting them in contact with the outside world.
They also refuse access to the Red Cross and don't allow hostages any means of communication with family, both of which are additional war crimes, even if the hostages weren't civilians—maybe they will, eventually, but seeing as they did not in the case of Gilad Shalit, for over five years, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
(I continue to debunk your misinformation below, no need to respond with more lies)
All hostage deaths so far have been caused by Israeli bombing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/10/09/israel-hamas-hostage-death/
500 civilians were just blown up in a hospital yesterday by Israel, do you not think they deserve their human rights? Or do you not consider them civilians?
Ugh. Have you been paying attention to any of the news at all, outside of extremists' Instagram stories?
OSINT analysts say it was a misfire.
Israel released drone footage and audio of Hamas agents from a wire tap, but I suppose you won't believe the video or audio.
US intelligence confirms the misfire theory as well, if you care. Plenty of detail in their assessment as well.
The only evidence I've seen that it wasn't a misfire, besides bare claims from Hamas that it was an Israeli air strike (that mysteriously didn't feel like leaving a crater), is an Al Jazeera journalist on Twitter theorizing that it might have been a heat-seeking anti-air missile that exploded a rocket in the air, and another heat-seeking missile that instead locked onto a generator or some other target near the hospital.
Do you even consider them to be human?
Do you? Or are they just pawns for you to use to try to demonize Israel?
Again none of that has been properly verified by a third party.
Both Israel and Hamas have been guilty of lying in the past and pushing propaganda and misinformation.
If you believe what western media is saying currently about the hospital then I have a story about 40 beheaded babies to sell to you.
Again you're telling on yourself when you say indoctrination into Islam is bad. Lot's of islamaphobia for someone who would probably cry antisemitism if anyone talked shit about the Jewish faith.
Israel’s collective punishment is objective a war crime by definition.
Only if you believe it's collective punishment. I've argued that cutting off electricity and similar actions are not intended as punishment at all, it's intended to reduce the rocket-making capabilities of Hamas and PIJ as they actively use every resource at their disposal to make and fire rockets.
Ah yes grid electricity that is totally necessary for production of explosives and turning off doesn't disproportionately affect all the people in hospitals that require it to live.
It absolutely is collective punishment no matter the intent. The general public suffer.
Way to act like a propogada mouthpiece for a genocidal state.
Israel supplied about half of Gaza's electricity. They do not need more than the other half to run a hospital and a desalination plant. Hamas has been stealing all the fuel it can to create rockets and support other offensive capabilities. They aren't struggling to produce enough electricity because they don't have the ability to produce enough electricity, they're struggling because Hamas is literally taking it from them.
From Wikipedia, their power comes from:
- Gaza's sole power plant which has a nominal rating of 60–140 MW (figures vary due to degree of operation and damage to the plant) which is reliant on diesel fuel imported via Israel,[33][34]
- 125 MW supplied by Israel Electric Corporation (IEC) via 10 power lines, and
- 27 MW supplied by Egypt.[35][36]
- plus various generators and things throughout Gaza.
Power plant use fossil fuels, but Hamas has been stealing the fuel they have reserved, so yes, the power plant is operating below capacity. If they wanted to run the hospital or the desalination plant as badly as they wanted to fire rockets vaguely in the direction of Israel, they would.
Way to act like a total dumbass who hasn't spent more than five minutes researching the situation and refuses to learn.
which is reliant on diesel fuel imported via Israel
It wouldn't be the current blockade by Israel that has caused the fuel shortage?
except the actual wolf is just across the border, launching rockets into civilian areas.
You do know that Israel has been doing this exact thing to Palestine for decades right?
I'm sorry I it is bs saying Israel isn't the aggressor. Which side has more civilian casualties again in this decades long conflict?
At this point anything Israel “finds” just seems to justify the genocide that really seems to be happening.
No they absolutely keep their top secret plans printed on hundreds of fliers detailing the atrocities they plan to commit, just in case they’re captured so the whole world learns their “secret” plans that they printed at Kinkos and becomes even more enraged and hits their civilians harder. It’s definitively how real war is done in real life, but I mean obviously by mindless monsters not worthy of the land they’ve continually been forced out of because they’re rabid babykilling Islamic animals hellbent on an antisemitic hell crusade and this map of elementary schools we found totally proves it!
(Yeah, it’s probably propaganda. Israel is about to/is doing genocide in the spotlight and they need justification)
I dunno.
News has this ... Hamas practised in plain sight, posting video of mock attack weeks before border breach.
they are not ashamed of being terrorists or targeting civilians or teaching schoolchildren to do so. They're quite proud that they've been targeting civilians until they have an English-language interviewer asking them questions on air.
Anybody defending them is a patsy, at best.
Unlike Hamas who is always honest
All people here defending Palestine, and denouncing Israel, but never denouncing Hamas. They implicitly are terrorist apologists. No wonder, since a lot of people here seem to be staunch leftists
They keep saying Hamas doesn't represent Palestine but whenever you say that the world needs to end Hamas, they automatically think you're talking about all Palestinians and get offended, so apparently even they are confused. Too many people defending Hamas as if they are Palestine
Por que no los dos? Nothing can justify an excessive response. Murdering children on purpose can't justify more children being murdered.
If both parties are both acting in good faith, but Israel has been doing nothing but making excuses for its wholesale genocide. Their actions make their credibility suspect.
what the fuck are you talking about? You're fucking saying Hamas was acting in good faith?
My God, this place.
Nice try putting words in my mouth.
I was trying very hard to understand what the fuck you were talking about, which is why I asked.
if you read your own comment again, you might just notice the sheer lack of grammatical sense.
If you want people to understand your point, try again.
If you were genuinely asking then apologies for the misunderstanding. Yet the question is one of those "you are prolife? You support killing babies?" type situations.
I never mentioned Hamas or said they also are acting in good faith, as that isnt the topic called into question.
Hamas acting in good faith has nothing to do with this. They aren't the one making claims.
Israel is the one making the claims here, and the question is if they are making the claim in good faith or trying to justify their genocidal campaign against Palestine.
It smells like propaganda and Israel has been doing nothing but fishing for an excuse to justify their retaliation, especially with the backlash from other countries.
I never mentioned Hamas or said they also are acting in good faith, as that isnt the topic called into question.
Who are the "both parties" here? You said something about "both parties," do you remember that?
Israel is the one making the claims here, and the question is if they are making the claim in good faith or trying to justify their genocidal campaign against Palestine.
I think that'll be clear enough once the campaign is over and you barely see a blip in the population of Gaza, and they're really not too concerned with justifying anything on the world stage—the UN seems to be censuring them every damn day already.
Also: I don't think you really need an excuse to go rescue 150+ hostages when the hostage-takers don't have terms to give them back, I think it's very clear that Hamas is desperate for the invasion to happen. I'm the furthest thing from a war hawk, but I can't understand what people want to happen here, you want Netanyahu to fly to Qatar and beg this guy to give back the hostages? Offer for all 9.5 million Israelis to leave in the next week? There's no way Hamas is giving up those hostages, no way they're going to stop trying to kill every Jew on the planet. They're acting in good faith on their stated goals.
What more justification do you think Israel actually needs to invade Gaza?
If you were genuinely asking then apologies for the misunderstanding. Yet the question is one of those "you are prolife? You support killing babies?" type situations.
I never mentioned Hamas or said they also are acting in good faith, as that isnt the topic called into question.
Hamas acting in good faith has nothing to do with this. They aren't the one making claims.
Israel is the one making the claims here, and the question is if they are making the claim in good faith or trying to justify their genocidal campaign against Palestine.
It smells like propaganda and Israel has been doing nothing but fishing for an excuse to justify their "retaliation" efforts, especially with the backlash from other countries.
It can be both. When your goal is hostages, it makes sense to take the most vulnerable. Children are easier to take and aren’t likely to fight back.
Edit: Free Palestine 🇵🇸
Fuck Hamas and all the leftists terrorist apologists
It's fascinating that you felt the need to edit your comment because just addressing the facts in the present case wasn't enough. Even though the facts might be true and despicable, you still need to make it clear what side you're on, you can't just say what you think is true.
He didn't say free hamas. Hama's isn't Palestine. Hamas hasn't held an election for almost as long as the average Palestinian has been alive. Longer than they've been able to vote. Personally I'd like to see Palestine free of Israel and Israel's creation hamas.
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The problem is Palestine as a whole doesn't realistically support hamas. Saying that they do would imply that if they were given two equally viable choices they would choose hamas. The average age of a Palestinian is 18 to 19 years old. The last time Hamas held elections was 2005 2006. Most Palestinians have never actually had a choice. Hamas and their leadership is largely what they've been saddled with.
If Israel stopped bulldozing Palestinian homes, and stealing land. Opened up Gaza so it wasn't just an open air prison anymore. And actually provided a constructive path forward to actually benefit Palestinians. You might actually see a number of them defending an even supporting their benefactors.
Would there still be terrorist attacks and innocent people losing their lives? All you have to do is look at the United States to know the answer to that. But their lives on the whole would be better and happier. It still wouldn't be easy or overnight. But it's the only real solution
I didn't say Hamas was Palestine, I didn't say he said Free Hamas, I didn't say anything about his point except the way he felt the need to inject it on the end of an otherwise complete and practically unrelated point.
Yeah but that's enough for all the leftists terrorist apologizers to come from the woodwork
Yep. Know what else is fascinating. **Free Palestine 🇵🇸 **
Fuck Hamas and all the leftists terrorist apologists
Remember when Hezbollah kicked Israel’s @ss?