You're viewing part of a thread.
People in general can learn something from stoicism. From a philosophical standpoint it can be a good place to provide tools for improving yourself from within. However, I also find it hard to accept that men are inherently emotionally weaker than women for many of the reasons mentioned by LoreleiSankTheShip.
Modern societies extert incredible pressure on people to conform to unreasonable expectations which greatly repress individuality. These pressures start early and are persistent. Emotionally intelligent men exist and have always existed. I could easily believe many of these men couldn't even begin to define or explain stoicism. Their emotional intelligence could have been learned from family, friends, partners or community.
A broad and over generalized expectation of modern men are that they be strong and courageous. That they act as independent individuals to care for their family or community. Traits which could be mistaken for a surface level of stoicism.
What we are seeing today in is very much a lack of emotional intelligence. There is a very noticeable deficiency in emotional intelligence in men when compared to women. Unable to reflect inwards about their motivations and outward actions. Unable to empathetically understand how their actions affect those around them. Unable to to identity, verbalize or express the emotions which are happening within them. As a result, men don't have the proper understanding of themselves to begin the process of improving themselves. Trans men offer a unique insight into this as they have had the opportunity to experience two worlds of gender expectations.
But humans are social animals. Many mammals exhibit social needs. We can look to our closest friends such as cats and dogs and see how true that is. We've reached a point where our social communities are fragmented and broken. The ideal of a strong man is heavily expected to replace that missing sense of community.
It's become and issue so deep and entangled that it's hard to know where to even begin. I wish there was a simple -ism to unravel this mess but a person is complex. Eight billion people with eight billion unique perspectives is a level of complexity we just don't know how to even comprehend or manage.
We can start by teaching emotional understanding from within, by being good examples, by creating and maintaining communities or by calling out bad behavior. Unfortunately, these actions can be attacked. It's an uphill battle and the hill is looking very steep.
Amazingly said!
I do not trust Lorelei's personal view. This is a fact coming from a famous psychiatrist, I mentioned in a reply to him. Consider watching 3 minutes of that.
A whole lot of 90s and post 90s people seem to have some kind of neuro disorders, like ADHD, neurodivergence, autism and so on. It also exists in older people, but we are the current and future workforce, and the older baby boomers have lived out their lives. The whole obsession with empathy seems to be highly simplified, and I think nobody explains properly why "mental health" and "get therapy" is such a big issue. I think I got the answer, thanks to Dr Daniel Amen's podcast video.
Do yourself a favour, watch it, even better if you watch the whole thing. He has scanned over 250K brains and is a professional.
In order to engage you in meaningful discussion, I need to understand your thoughts and perspectives more from your own words.
Why do you not trust the personal view of another lemmy user? We are on a social platform made for discussing a variety of topics and we will always encounter different views. Hopefully this leads to exploring and expanding our own views on the topics we bring up.
I would also like to stay on the topic of men and emotional intelligence which was brought up by LoreleiSankTheShip. I currently do not see how neurodivergence and generational workforces fit into this discussion unless you can clearly state the connections for me.
I do agree with you that the importance of mental health and it's approaches are not very well explained. However, empathy carries a lot of weight in the discussion of mental health and should not be undermined or under valued.
Lastly, it's easy to link a video of an expert, but experts are human and can fall for personal biases too. If you can explain to me your interpretation of what this expert is saying, we can begin to have a thorough discussion. Otherwise, I fear we may be deadlocked and nothing more will come of this.
I did watch your recommended clip and am still struggling to understand your view point.
I do not trust the words of an internet user because the other guy has seen and studied (250K) more brains than anyone else in the world, and has studied brains of people like Muhammad Ali and Justin Bieber. The doctor is not just a certified professional, he is at the top of psychiatry field, the crème de la crème. I will never prioritise anyone's observations over that kind of a leading expert.
If you want to validate yourself forcibly and feel deadlocked, despite knowing someone's certified credentials and real world treatment results, then that is on you. I can only lead the horse to the water, horse can choose to drink or not.
If you went ahead through a 2 hour long podcast that gained 3M views in a month, maybe you would gain a lot out of it, considering we do not live in particularly the most encouraging times as far as attention span goes towards something as boring as 2 people talking on a gray table.
I should add that I just discovered I have ADHD, and am able to hyperfocus on topics I like to study and also have EFD, so I found incredible details in all the stuff the doctor explained.
Unfortunately I feel this conversation has become deadlocked for a number of reasons.
You have clearly dismissed a fellow person with a valid observation and left no room for open discussion. When given the opportunity to express why you do not agree, you continue to be dismissive.
You have ignored the topics that has been brought up and are being discussed. In this case emotional intelligence, particularly among men.
You have not made an attempt to clearly connect your various points into a cohesive argument.
You have not expressed what you have studied in your own words. To express ideas in your own words would show the rest of us how you perceive and understand a topic. This would be a great base for having a meaningful conversation.
Lastly, you have done nothing but blindly praise an individual on a podcast. If the words in your initial post are true, we should never worship anyone.
Taking a step back away from everyone and everything to think of why we react to other peoples words may help us to understand ourselves better. And that's a good thing.
At this point I am done. As a fellow individual with ADHD (and Autism), I wish you the best on your mental health journey and I hope you approach it with an open heart and open mind. Thank you for giving me a new perspective for me to think about and hopefully understand in the future.
You are trying to gaslight me, so this will be the last of our interactions on the internet.
A doctor at the top of their specialised field is not "worshipped", but respected when their observations are held to the highest regard. Not doing so is a very high order of disrespect. You think that lemmy user has studied even 25 brain scans of people, let alone over 250 hundred thousand brains? I am not going to explain things any better than a world renowned psychiatrist. This is why I told you to go watch their video. You cannot do it, and that other lemmy user you are revering so much cannot either. A doctor can.
I am also done with your stubbornness, and your faux obsession to forcibly prove yourself correct using emotions against hard proofs with basis in science. If you had any respect for neurological conditions or disorders, you would not go around dismissing a world renowned psychiatrist for an internet user's word.
Feelings are not more important than logic and facts. The day you understand this, you will grow as an individual who does not need to rely on impulsive and emotional methods to get through talking to people. It is okay to be firm with facts rather than be delusional with feelings.