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I don’t think anybody thinks that.
Not explicitly, maybe, but implicitly, absolutely, and in multiple ways:
- Supporting the system that creates one over the other
- Having 'bootstrap' attitudes about the poor
- Worrying about property value over utilization
- Complaining about the homeless rather than the lack of action on housing
- Voting against people who run on public housing
In so, so many ways, people say they prefer the latter over the former. Usually just with the caveat that the homeless people also be invisible.
Maybe we should institute a tax on underutilized land in metro areas.
Land Value Tax 👀
I think a simple law that if there is a building, it must be in a repaired state.
In St. Louis a person opened large portions of the city where they’ve let the holes decay.
He should have to keep them in a proper upkeep or tear them down.
Fuck anyone that uses money to buy things and let them rot. That's a purposefully broad statement.
I agree. I wish I could find an article on this guy but he is just hoarding and letting it rot. Has something to do with taxes.
Based Geoism.
I wonder who is doing this voting? Oh, it's people who live in the areas we can't afford to live in. And capitalists add lobbying power to those voters selfish interests.
It's because the person you're replying to has been harassing various communities for weeks now. They are mentally ill and post thousands of times per week, always emotional, always righteous. Regardless of your opinions on housing or Pokemon or whatever it's not healthy to be an Internet bullhorn as a full time thing. I suggest tag and block for toxic users like this.
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In the United States at least, your local government's public hearings for new housing developments kinda begs to differ.
People will demand the homeless be eliminated from their area while simultaneously opposing development of housing or shelters for the homeless in their area.
So maybe you're right though: they don't hate the apartments more, they simply can't make up their mind on which they hate more.
I agree but want to say everyone jumps to homeless. There are a ton of normal people that are suffering from high rent, lack of options, etc. We need to think about way more than homeless.
Building more apartments makes it easier for tenants to get a good price, because there are more providers. Supply and demand.
It also makes it easier to buy a single-family home if would-be competitors had the option to get the apartment downtown that they'd prefer.
Even people who have their own housing taken care of, and aren't looking for a new place would find they have a nicer life when they don't have to step around the homeless when they go out.
How about we start with the homeless instead of biting off more than we can chew.
Most people think homeless as jobless, etc. But when we have people with entirely ok jobs that can't afford rent (see people living in their cars), addressing basic normal housing addresses both for a startling amount.
So it sounds like zoning laws are the problem?
In some cases. But even proposed changes to zoning laws can get this kind of opposition.
Aside from zoning laws, there's the lack of a unified federal intervention. This prevents any one area from addressing the local homeless issue because any area that takes steps to address it will consequently absorb more homeless individuals from other places in the country. For example, if a city in California develops a program to house any homeless individuals, then homeless individuals from other cities and states will be more likely to go to said city to get housed. Even worse, there are states that would actually pay for their transportation. What would happen is that either the city would have to solve a much larger homeless problem as new homeless move into town, or the initial wave of homeless people will be house while the new arrivals and homeless will stay homeless, leaving a continued homeless problem.
Succinctly put.
So conservative NIMBYs are the problem?
There's definitely an "I got mine, fuck you." component, yes.
I think it’s more so that people don’t want an apartment complex built in their backyard, not that they are opposed to them being built in an area where there is proper infrastructure
NIMBY!!
Where do you place the proper infrastructure then? It’s always going to be in someone’s “back yard” as you put it.
Well there’s considerable difference between an apartment complex in a suburb not designed for heavy traffic and less developed areas where there’s room for expansion for infrastructure.
We can’t expand roads in my area, either for an extra lane (which I know is a sin) or for buses because it would be right up on houses at that point.
However, just a few miles down the road on the main drag, there’s undeveloped land that would be perfect. Build it there.
When I say “backyard” I mean literally in your backyard. Instead of name calling and downvoting, have a fucking conversation and ask in a respectful manner what somebody means. Stop being a douche because you automatically assume somebody who thinks slightly differently than you is wrong.
Well articulated. I'm not from the US, but I've seen housing developments go sideways when they built four 10-story blocks (not in somebody's back yard, but in an area without proper infrastructure) and after 1000ish people had moved in there were 1 hour long queues just to get out of the complex because there was only one road with one lane per direction. And the only bus stop was not really reliable.
This was not built in the middle of the city because of land availability (and huge prices even if there was land available - you're near the metro and tram and a bus stop? pay 50% more. oh, you're near a park too? pay 50% more on top of that). Should we just tear down old buildings in low density areas in the city to make room for big blocks? Some might be worth tearing down because of age and overall condition, but good luck getting people to move out.
lmao make up your mind
do you want to have a conversation without name calling? Then leave out the name calling or kindly get fucked
Yeah, "in stead of name calling, stop being a douche" is not the MOST consistent argument ever 😂
Tired of being nice. I do it all the time and it’s never returned in kind.
Lemmy users act like this is a different place, that it’s a more wholesome internet, what a joke. It’s as bad as anywhere else.
I wasn’t being mean spirited with my original comment, it was a legitimate question. Whenever I hear people say something like “I don’t want that!” I like to find out why. It’s just curiosity. Sorry if it came across mean.
It's not far off what many think. Many think apartments are, oh so many adjectives, dirty, poor, unsanitary, inhumane, cruel, unusual, etc.
Who is “many”? Do you have surveys and data to support this?
Go to/watch any planning or proposal meeting and watch the pearl clutching and nimbyism. I think you know this but you want to demand "studies" instead of engaging in good faith.
you want to demand "studies" instead of engaging in good faith.
Said the ocean gate sub captain.
jiggles keys Who wants to go see a shipwreck??
I went to a planning meeting in my neighborhood and it wasn't like that at all. Why did you lie about that?
Also, why don't you value scientific research and evidence? Because they don't corroborate your perverted worldview?
I think this is one of those communists who can't be bothered to actually read or live by anything. The meeting was full of shouting communists, whose side I'm on, regarding a city golf course and it's removal. You were way off. Why did you act like you knew what was going to happen? I'm not mad I'm just confused like, did you really think it was going to be like how you prejudged it or are you towing the disinformation line?
This is why it's never good to engage with adolescents as someone with an intellectual conscience, and not just some wishful-idea-drunk autist that can't tell human faces apart.
Second reply from user nutandcross for posterity;
I went to a planning meeting in my neighborhood and it wasn't like that at all. Why did you lie about that?
Also, why don't you value scientific research and evidence? Because they don't corroborate your perverted worldview?
I think this is one of those communists who can't be bothered to actually read or live by anything. The meeting was full of shouting communists, whose side I'm on, regarding a city golf course and it's removal. You were way off. Why did you act like you knew what was going to happen? I'm not mad I'm just confused like, did you really think it was going to be like how you prejudged it or are you towing the disinformation line?
This is why it's never good to engage with adolescents as someone with an intellectual conscience, and not just some wishful-idea-drunk autist that can't tell human faces apart.
Answer: why did you lie to me?
Third reply from user nutandcross for posterity:
Answer: why did you lie to me?
For posterity lol
"instead of engaging in good faith"
So facts and good faith ethics are mutually exclusive?
I just got back from a planning meeting and it was nothing like how you said it would be. Why would you lie to me about that?
Why are you just constantly just lying to people from your room on the Internet? It's it because when you die, you'll just vanish and leave a bodily mess because you never became anything, never understood what it meant to be a human? Because you've turned yourself over to bad ideas cause your own were worse and now you're some pimpled Putin puppet.
Communism, fascism, Jordan Peterson, Trumpist demagogues thrive on weak 14-year-old minds hungry to assert their powerful opinion on something they've have no actual experience with
I urge you to visit these Utopias, maybe move there. There you won't be called parasite, you will experience the insouciant freedom of the lodged and suckling tick. Maybe the reason you feel so bad is that you don't belong in a free nation because you're too chickenshit to exist on your own merit.
They also recruit and weaponize mentally vulnerable people like young autistic men (4chan, Bannon, cp forums), here's just a couple I'm sure you can can find commie versions of these stories you can stomach (you can use these to strengthen your good faith arguments):
You're all George Santos wannabes in five years, too. Fucking garbage. My family didn't fight and die so a bunch of little kids could run around with Hitler mustaches telling me which way to think is the correct way to think according to the correct men. Everyone can see how sweaty and dangerous and anti-social utopian philosophies really are except the fevered adherent who always ends up dead or in a cell. You'd shit your pants in a fight.
This is the response from user nutandcross for posterity, read to the end:
"instead of engaging in good faith"
So facts and good faith ethics are mutually exclusive?
I just got back from a planning meeting and it was nothing like how you said it would be. Why would you lie to me about that?
Why are you just constantly just lying to people from your room on the Internet? It's it because when you die, you'll just vanish and leave a bodily mess because you never became anything, never understood what it meant to be a human? Because you've turned yourself over to bad ideas cause your own were worse and now you're some pimpled Putin puppet.
Communism, fascism, Jordan Peterson, Trumpist demagogues thrive on weak 14-year-old minds hungry to assert their powerful opinion on something they've have no actual experience with
I urge you to visit these Utopias, maybe move there. There you won't be called parasite, you will experience the insouciant freedom of the lodged and suckling tick. Maybe the reason you feel so bad is that you don't belong in a free nation because you're too chickenshit to exist on your own merit.
They also recruit and weaponize mentally vulnerable people like young autistic men (4chan, Bannon, cp forums), here's just a couple I'm sure you can can find commie versions of these stories you can stomach (you can use these to strengthen your good faith arguments):
You're all George Santos wannabes in five years, too. Fucking garbage. My family didn't fight and die so a bunch of little kids could run around with Hitler mustaches telling me which way to think is the correct way to think according to the correct men. Everyone can see how sweaty and dangerous and anti-social utopian philosophies really are except the fevered adherent who always ends up dead or in a cell. You'd shit your pants in a fight.
Yes /s
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Sure they do. Look at all of the posts from my neighbors on Facebook and Nextdoor every time a developer tries to build an apartment building instead of a single family home in our neighborhood.
We're not building homes, we're not focussing on density. But apparently our elected officials have no problem letting people set up shanty towns. Where do you think the priorities lay?
What do you mean we’re not building homes? I have plenty of homes and apartments being built in my city that cater to lots of strata of incomes.