The Voice debate is yet another ugly chapter in Australia's history
The Voice debate is yet another ugly chapter in Australia's history
After many months of bitter debate about the Voice, an address to the National Press Club this week reminds us that we are back at a point where it seems that, no matter what the truth may be, we will not let it lead to any change, writes Laura Tingle.
You're viewing a single thread.
Is there a decent write up somewhere about what the voice actually is? I've heard a lot of debate about it, I'd like to read an impartial write up about it.
Permanently Deleted
I hope they vote it down.
- The PM wasted his political capital on this shit. Fuck him.
- No race based government bodies.
- Abos
If something thats getting added to the constitution requires a bracket explanation, its a poorly worded addition.
Using “make representation” and the advisory body’s involvement in the executive government are two hard red lines. The lack of effort and thoughts in this referendum is screaming out from its text.
Permanently Deleted
Feel free to keep hurling racism accusations again randoms that didn’t even mention any identity group. i’m sure that’ll help with your cause.
Mean while, congratulations on securing a no vote.
Permanently Deleted
Apologise accepted.
Now, back onto the topic:
We can agree that “make representations” usually means an advisory role, the issue is it introduces ambiguity. The referendum specifically used the word “representations”, which is the same word used to assign seats in parliament. If “make representations” means make recommendations, then why don’t just say “make recommendations” instead? The less ambiguous the wording is more support it will get, i see no reason to use a word that foreseeably stirs up so much controversy.
Also keep in mind that despite what the legal experts says, their interpretations are not legally binding, but words in the constitutions are. If me (and many others) can interpret “make representations” as potential extra seats in parliament, there’s always the risk of this phrase getting reinterpreted later for political reasons to actually give extra seats.
As for the executive branch, the Voice is too vague at its current stage to have it involved. Now, this wouldn’t an issue if we actually reach the treaty stage of the Uluru statement and we have a well-thought out treaty that designates the executive rights of aboriginals. It would be cool if we do that. But with how overarching the executive government is, the Voice should either be more specific (i.e. ditch the “we’ll figure it out once it passed” mentality), or leave it for the next stage of negotiation with aboriginals.
A well-thought out referendum needs to address concerns for everyone across the political aisle before getting pushed forward, especially if a major concern is just the wording. The two issues above should be easily identified at the drafting stage and both have relatively simple fix (i.e. no fundamental disagreement on the underlying purpose), but here we are. I feel bad for the aboriginals, fingers crossed this doesn’t make too much trouble for future referendums.
Permanently Deleted
It will be a government body to advise the government on aboriginal laws. The government will need to listen to them but does not need to follow their advice. The problem, many Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander people say, is that there are programs and funds to help but they are often misdirected and end up wasted or they target things the communities don't need. The idea is to ensure their voice is heard when the government legislates about them.
It's pretty uncontroversial when you strip it back.
The government will need to listen to them but does not need to follow their advice
I'm almost certain I'm misunderstanding something, but this sounds like an aboriginal filibuster. If the government is 'required' to listen, and no time limit is spelled out in the amendment, could the voice be used to filibuster?
Parliament is able to legislate, like with literally everything in the constitution. Parliament could legislate that all pollies need to be holding a special duck blessed by the king's chief bum wiper to speak in the house if it wanted to.
Provided the constitutional requirements are fulfilled (there's a voice, they can make representations on indigenous issues) the precise nature of those representations, the composition of the voice etc are all a matter of legislation.
It's the same as every other constitutional requirement. The constitution provides minimum standards to meet and curtails certain powers, Parliament passes acts to fulfill those.
I doubt it. The whole "representation" part seems over-hyped. It's being promoted almost as if it will be a dedicated seat in parliament. The more likely outcome that it will just end up being a committee that reports into the existing NIAA structure and we don't end up seeing anything more impactful than what the NIAA is currently delivering.
If the Voice goes ahead, we can look forward to it running into the usual government bureaucracy, leading to disappointment once it becomes clear that government legislation doesn't solve issues that are occurring at the local, community level.Permanently Deleted
I don't think it means a complaint. It's just to speak officially for. You linked an idiom rather than the definition.
Permanently Deleted
I'm not Australian but I watched a video. As far as I understand it's completely powerless. You know how Puerto Rico gets 2 senators but we don't even talk about it because it doesn't actually matter? It's like that except they really promise to listen this time, and it's only allowed to be packed with indigenous people.
Permanently Deleted
Nah. I'm getting involved. It's the internet you can't expect everyone to stick to just their country's politics. I bet you've had more opinions about America than I have about Australia. I barely even know anything about Australia.
These are the design principles from the working group: https://voice.gov.au/about-voice/voice-principles
The 272-page final report from the co-design working group has all of the minute detail about how they engaged with the National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA) to design the Voice proposal, including recommendations on how it should operate: https://voice.gov.au/sites/default/files/resource/download/indigenous-voice-co-design-process-final-report_1.pdf
Sorry but you're not going to find a good impartial write up. Anyone who's impartial on this issue is ignorant of the facts. The issue is far too emotionally charged and important for anybody to possibly have no opinion if they understand the issue at hadn.
Here's my partial one:
- White people did some horrible shit when we settled in Australia.
- In some pockets of society those atrocities are still happening now.
- Not enough is being done about it.
Indigenous people (and any white person who's aware of the issues and has a shred of compassion) want more to be done to deal with the issue.
A joint effort by both the Liberal and Labor parties spent years asking the affected people what should be done, and considering the issue, and the number one thing those people asked for was a "Voice" or rather a dedicated group of people who's entire job is to recommend ways the government can improve things for indigenous Australians. The joint Liberal/Labor effort also produced a report recommending exactly the same thing. And that's what will happen if we vote Yes.
Indigenous Australians feel like nobody in the government listens when they talk. They want a Voice, and we should give them one.
It will cost almost nothing. There's no requirement for the government to act on the advice, the elected government of the day can make that decision on a case by case basis after seeing the recommendations. There is zero downside to voting Yes... other than acknowledging that atrocities have and are being committed which many Australians are unwilling to do.
How much it will help... well that's something we can debate. But mostly it will depend what government is in power when the recommendations are made The Voice. If Pauline Hanson is Prime Minister then, yeah, The Voice would be a waste of time. But she's not Prime Minister and touch wood she never will be. The worst possible outcome is a "Yes" vote won't achieve the sated goals, and then we'll just continue life as we are.
Voting No, on the other hand, will absolutely make things worse. That will significantly divide and anger indigenous people. There's going to be years of civil unrest and burned bridges all over the place if we vote No.
So:
- Voting Yes - costs nothing and won't do any harm and it might do some good.
- Voting No - will be a fucking disaster.
Which one of those would you prefer?
Voting Yes - costs nothing and won’t do any harm and it might do some good.
Theoretically it could actually save a lot of money long-term. That's why many conservatives also support the Voice, because it is ultimately a fiscally conservative proposal. The claim some Australians have made that the Voice is a "waste of taxpayer money during a cost of living crisis" is the complete opposite of reality. If people actually care about the economy, and aren't just using it as a smokescreen to hide their more controversial oppositions to the Voice, they should be voting Yes in this referendum to help government create more efficient and less financially wasteful Indigenous affairs policies.