1d ago

Genuinely unsure how I'm supposed to survive dating.

CW: suicidal ideation

Firstly, an apology. I've posted here a couple of times during low moments and then never followed up. Received a lot of helpful and sympathetic comments each time and it's kinda shitty I've never even updated my original posts about things being better (because they are).

Onto the meat. Between a couple of long-term relationships and long periods of not really looking for a partner, I hadn't realised I'd managed to get to my late 20s without ever having to 'date'. Both my serious relationships were friends that progressed onto the next level.

Emotionally, this stuff is devastating. Matching with someone who seems interesting and attractive, and they cannot/will not genuinely engage in conversation. Having an amazing conversation with someone in an evening, and then nothing ever again.

Worst are all the feelings associated with RSD when you're not sure there's even a problem. But you are certain there's an issue. How'd you explain that to anyone? How'd you explain that to them?

Idk why I'm posting this rant. I'm sorry for disturbing you all. I don't even want someone to tell me I'm wrong or right or anything else. Selfishly, all I want is for someone to tell me:

'Yeah, no, you're right there's something wrong with you in particular. You really will never be happy and you're right, you shouldn't be here. No, you're absolutely right, there's an unplacable ugliness to you that you can't fix and everyone will always notice.'

I don't know what I'd do if someone confirmed all my worst fears but I think it'd make me feel better? Like things made sense? Like I was correct about something for once.

Sorry again.

26 comments

It's not you, dating is just awful. I suggest not doing it. You've entered relationships before without dating, you can do it again. I have personally found that I'm a lot more attractive when I'm not actively trying to woo someone.
- Yeah, I see that. It's just that I've finally found a career I enjoy and doesn't make me actively suicidal. Downside is that it leaves me kind of time poor.
  I've dated a couple of women from work and it's been mixed. Also before I found this job, I fell ~~in-love~~ in-limerance with a friend with a long-term boyfriend (now engaged) and the internal angst between wanting to be her friend, wanting to be a good person, and desperately wanting her relationship to end really led me to wanting to 'date' so at least I wasn't getting invested in unavailable people.
  Sorry, don't want to give the impression I'm completely disregarding you. I appreciate you contributing.
  
  the internal angst between wanting to be her friend, wanting to be a good person, and desperately wanting her relationship to end
  That's just being human.
  I think it was Mark Twain that said "nobody is completely sad when their best friend fails"

You'll probably feel better about all this if you shift your perspective a little. Right now you're frustrated because you're seeing a date as the first step to a relationship, and then when it doesn't go any further, you feel like you've failed and you have to start over. You are reluctant to try again because you expect another failure.
Dating is simply increasing your sample size.
Those past dates weren't failures, you successfully learned that those people weren't compatible with you.
If you try a new food and you don't like it, do you consider that a failure? You stepped out of your comfort zone, decided it wasn't for you, and now you know to avoid that dish in the future, and the next one you try might be your new favorite, or, it might not, but how else will you know?
Get out there, interact with people and increase your sample size! There are plenty of other people with similar interests as you, it might just take a while to find them.
Once you give up, only then have you failed, otherwise, you just aren't there yet. It's better to take your time and find the right person, than rush into a relationship with somebody you aren't compatible with. (Trust me, I'm on my second marriage because I desperately clung to the first person who showed interest in my 20s)
- Thanks. I appreciate you coming at this from a different perspective as some other respondents (not that I don't appreciate them too).
  You're absolutely right that I suppose I have found out we weren't right for one another and in some cases yeah, it absolutely feels that way. Other times, just because of how it ended, it doesn't feel resolved from my end but I suppose in a way, it has been.
  Interesting thing to consider. Thank you.
  
  Just remember, real world relationships don't happen like they do on TV and movies. There is no formula to follow that will win over whoever you set your eyes on. It's about two people finding each other.

I'm a tad older than you, but I also had all my long term relationships come out of prior friendships. Dating is straight up toxic nowadays. Dry one-sided conversations where you feel you're the only one even making an attempt. Women randomly ghosting you after what seemed like good interactions. Some women who seemed genuinely interested vanished or got hostile when I suggested we split the bill on a first date. Women who's profiles say they are looking for relationships but when you talk it's clear they just want to hook up or try and use you as a wallet. Women who agree to dates and cancel when you're already driving to the restaurant or at the restaurant. Or worse the ones that just don't even show up or respond despite planning a date.
It's just exhausting and sad. At least as an average looking dude with a normal job and life. So many women these days seem to expect to be taken to HELLA fancy restaurants or they get offended when you try and take them to something slightly unusual/unique.
I deleted all the dating profiles awhile ago and I've felt so much better. At this point in my life I'm just gonna do my own thing and if I happen to bump into someone I won't fight it, but actively attempting to date had pushed me closer to suicide than anything since my deep COVID depression or highschool.
Best of luck out there man. It's a shit show for all of us don't worry.

Just make friends of all genders, including those you’re attracted to and let it go from there. Romance is meant to be born from friendship. Skipping friendship and going straight for romance is difficult for everyone and a generally bad way to know if you’re compatible long term. Make friends, and allow romance to be spontaneous

This might be an unpopular opinion but online dating works and is worth the struggle.
I also experienced some ghosting, periods of few replies, etc as well but I got better at it over time and found much better results as I adjusted. This is honestly a marathon not a sprint. Pace yourself, take a week off from matching (sometimes more) when it wears you out.
If you’re not getting enough dates then you must improve your photos. Your photos are everything in online dating. Even one 15% better photo can make all the difference. Over the next while try to improve your appearance, whether through some nicer clothes, finding a pretty setting, or a haircut and make sure to take a couple photos wherever you go. Most new photos may not look good but occasionally you will create one that’s an improvement worth updating your profiles with. People will learn about you after they are attracted to you. This is not vain or selfish, we want a partner we are attracted to.
I briefly dated someone who worked at one of the dating apps, and she told me about the science of dating. It’s called an “optimal stopping problem” and I highly recommend you google it.
It boils down to meeting as many people as does not burn you out, then locking in on the next best person you find. This will be your best chance of a good life partner. Also for men, there is a pay to play aspect. Be comfortable paying a monthly fee if you’re not getting any new dates. I know this is not perfectly fair but it makes sense how it came about. (And can be cheaper than buying strangers drinks.)
Once things get rolling be sure to turn down people you have doubts about. There is an ADHD impulse control issue where you may have an urge to go all in on a person showing you affection, especially if you’ve been needing it for some time. But please don’t settle, you should have very few reservations when you meet someone ideal for the long term. Again, your best chance of success is to say no to a good handful of people first so you know what’s possible and have more insight into what you need.
We spend so much energy on schooling for jobs we might change, but ideally a good partner is forever too. This is worth spending time and energy on. I married someone so perfect for me I didn’t let myself believe it was possible before I met them. I wouldn’t have found this without online dating - I am convinced it is better at putting you in front of people who suit you more than what past generations had to go through as long as people are willing to adjust to its quirks.

I don't even know how to date or make friends and don't even feel up to trying for much the same reasons. I got sort of dated (online) by a friend who then dumped me in like the first year of highschool without warning or reason, then ghosted me, and then my friend group slowly disintegrated. Probably need a bit of therapy for that, not sure why that in particular hit as hard as it did but it sucked the life out of highschool for me.
If nothing else i can tell ya you're not alone on that front at least. Late 20s, woooooo...
- I'd certainly recommend therapy for that. Therapy has helped me move past quite a few 'specific' traumas. Regrettable habits like feeling suicidal at the drop of a hat have proven harder to break in the long term.
  This is probably shit advice but if you want to make friends you need to be in an environment where 1. you're interacting with other people (ideally in a physical space) and 2. what you're doing is making you happy somehow. If you're not in the habit of either 1. or 2., I imagine that's petrifying and sadly it'll probably just require some perseverance.

I'm afraid that's kinda just how it is... with the dating apps at least. If you're on a dating app, you're a disposable swipe. I had 3+ dates with this girl recently, and I was starting to think that this could be a thing, and then se fue. Silence. Not even a thanks. Anyways, that's kind of how it is apparently.
So here's my recommendation instead. Go and do shit. With other people. Don't try to date, try to open up the possibility for a date to happen. And then don't chase it, let it happen. Eg, go and learn salsa dancing. (As an introvert, it was a real hard thing for me to do (understatement), but it was so worth it.) Or join a hiking group, or Dnd, or pub quiz, or just anything that gets you into different social circles, meeting new people, where you aren't a disposable swipe, you're a team mate.
Also, don't read into other people. Sometimes people get busy with their lives, or have a crisis, a million reasons why they ghost you. It's not you, it's them. Girls don't take apps seriously either. They are expecting 99% of douchebags, and they would be 98% correct.
Final tip, get a gym buddy. That does wonders for ADHD, depression, confidence, energy, etc etc etc.
Tl;dr, apps suck, go get involved socially, work on yourself.

try 33 while suddenly realising you want to have a girlfriend or at least interact with women while not having a clue how to even get started. Also I seem to think way differently than others so I feel like outcast sometimes even among friends.
at least you are not alone in your misery

You're doing it(dating) "wrong". If you're talking about online dating that is. The whole point is that you exchange a few messages then go on an actual date. Nobody does online dating to find a penpal.
- I mean, meh. I never would've gotten together with people if I hadn't just followed whatever they were comfortable with. I wrote for like 3 weeks about the deepest shit before I met up with someone, still together with that person. With others, I do exchange 3 messages and then meet up.
  It's more about genuinely being interested in the other person, getting them out of their "shell", i.e. talking about what they truly want, by being truly open yourself. So in a sense what you say is true though, if you wanna meet, you should tell them you wanna meet.
  I've also been successful re-establishing "ghosted" connections just by saying what I feel like "huh I thought we had a good connection here, apparently I misjudged that, anyway, hope you have a good one :)"
  Of course there'll be many where you're just too different to build a connection, too incompatible, or just too much unrelated shit getting in the way. But there's just no single script to follow. Except just saying what you want/feel, and truly listening.
  
  I totally agree. I think setting proper expectations and having the right attitude when it comes to online or just modern dating in general is really important. If you think every person might "be the one" or you overthink every situation, your going to have a really bad time.
  Just be genuine, honest, and try to have fun, dating is supposed to be fun.

Dating is the only thing that's given me panic attacks in the past... I'm also in my mid-late 20's and I've decided long ago to simply cut my losses and to just enjoy life. I still have people in my life that I love dearly but a romantic partner? I don't think it's my thing honestly...

To me, dating and relationships are two very different things. Dating is something to do not for romance but for entertainment. It is a way to find people with similar interests and have a good time...maybe a lot of sex too, but that should be secondary. I look for people that are on the same page. The goal is just to have a fun date and nothing more. If that leads to more fun dates; amazing! If it is a one and done; that's ok too. It is always about managing expectations.
You already figured out the hardest part which is that you should have romantic relationships that developed with people you spent time with. If you end up friends with someone you dated; great success! Maybe that develops into a relationship or maybe not. Just manage your expectations and assume you are both there to have a good time and nothing more.
PS: I love this loosely related clip.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WpVyEbgtrvI

Dating requires incredible mental resilience. People are traumatized. People are selfish. People are rude. People are struggling. You will have to be able to deal with all kinds of unpleasant behaviors.
Most of the time, these unpleasant behavior have literally nothing to do with you, because people are just self-centered, the hero of their own story, not seeing others as truly equal, putting you into neat little boxes you don't really fit in, or so many other reasons.
Even if you're the most perfect person in the world, literally the most attractive, literally with perfect people skills, you'd miss out on at least 70% of connections just because of the random shortcomings of the other person or tertiary events. So you have to be able to deal with the fact that most interactions will not work out.
But for your and everyone's psyche, every failure is a blow to the ego. So you will always get more blows to your ego than getting it stroked with a success. So it's completely natural to feel like you do, that there's an issue with you. But it's just simply not true.
The only way to do this dating thing is do it exactly as much as you can handle another rejection. Optimally, you'll be so comfortable by yourself that you literally don't care about rejection, because you're so comfortable already anyway, so why should a rejection matter? You'd just return to being comfortable alone.

I've been in a similar situation before and probably lived my entire twenties in the same mindset. I just turned 30 a few months ago and kinda went through the same existential crisis a couple years ago. I hate to be "that guy" but I think you are putting too many high expectations on it. At this point in my life I don't really try to date anymore because it always puts me in a similar mindset and I don't like it. But ever since I stopped trying to date and forcing myself into the situation of dating I have been much more content with life. I started saving the mental space for other things that I can control and know I can accomplish.
I don't know, I don't know your specific situation in all its aspects and I'm only speaking from a place of my own experiences. I understand how you feel, and I'm sorry I can't help. But if you want someone to talk to lemme know. And if it helps, I'd date the shit outta you. ;)
- Cheers, the feeling's mutual 😘
  I think my initial reaction to your comment was 'well, NTs can want to be in relationships, and they can date and get upset the "normal" amount. I only want what they got.'
  And I've managed to come to terms with accepting I can't have things "the NT way" before, so maybe that's something I can explore.
  
  And I think it's just what it is to have ADHD and the like. Knowing you have it is not the same as accepting is a part of yourself and making changes that reflect that acceptance. Like, when I get hyper focused on a new hobby I always try to remind myself that if I don't actually want to commit I shouldn't go all out and spend a bunch of money and put in a bunch of effort for something that I won't want in 2 months. Because that's how you end up with a $400 3D printer that sits in the corner collecting dust. But something I do like is making music. Sure, I don't work on it literally all the time, but I keep it in the back of my mind as something I actually want to do and put effort into.
  I'm not saying that dating is like a hyper-fixation or anything like that and I kinda lost the plot halfway through that comment, but the key takeaway I'd say is understanding and accepting yourself. Know what you want and what you are willing to go through to get there and don't expect results before you even make an effort. Dating is a game of trial and error and it's hard for even NTs to find what they are looking for. And basing what you want off of other people's experiences will only make it harder to find out what you want and what you are capable of.

Dating is not fun. It wasn't fun in my 20s. And if I had to do it in my mid thirties, God have mercy on my soul.
The only advice I can give you is to put yourself in situations where you meet people. You don't have to go out looking for a relationship to find it.
I think its better to just find like minded people to do activities with, and eventually you will find someone who likes you, and you mesh with.
The road to that place is long and sucks ass, but you'll get there.
As for the suicidal ideation, I've also been there. Go out and exercise, and touch the grass, socialize with other people, and if you drink, stop doing it so much. But, also, get enough sleep! That is easier said than done, I know.
Once I started getting enough sleep, trying to set a bedtime for myself, and if necessary, drug myself with sleep aids to go to sleep, my suicidal ideation pretty much disappeared.
Now, if you do all that and you're still having suicidal ideation, see a therapist if you can. Best of luck, life is hard.
- Thanks for the words of support. Genuinely happy things have gotten better for you. In many ways, they've also been getting better for me.
  In other replies I've approached why I want to 'date' rather than evolve but maybe it's just a case of it's yet another thing I can't/shouldn't do.
  
  I wouldnt say it's something you can't or even shouldn't do. But if it's making you feel bad, take a step back and ask yourself why it makes you feel that way. Keep in mind, people with ADHD often have issues with low self-esteem. That goes double if you've had an kind of trauma. You should be kinder to yourself about these feelings you are having.

Modern dating and the apps and stuff sucks for everybody (except maybe a few) in varying amounts for various intersecting reasons. The fact that our insecurities are priced into a company's business plan is no fun. It's just a truth that the default answer to the question, 'is this a good match' is 'no', and it's probably healthy to limit the influence that has on your self image in whatever way seems sustainable while also being open to serendipity. It's hard to feel good after being ghosted, but dang if it's probably better than getting any closer to that kind of person.

26 comments